The Power Grid.

Discussion in 'The Apocalypse' started by lonewolf, Sep 28, 2019.

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  1. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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  2. Sourdough

    Sourdough "ALASKAN"
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    Bad link.........Says "Page can't be found".
     
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  3. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    story of my life.
     
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  4. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    click on the link I posted, then click on blog and the page will come up.
    you'll have to scroll down the page and click on READ MORE to get the entire article.
     
  5. Sonofliberty

    Sonofliberty Master Survivalist
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    Yep, this is a disaster just waiting to happen. But, let's waste our money feeding, schooling and housing illegals instead.
     
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  6. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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  7. Sourdough

    Sourdough "ALASKAN"
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  8. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Individual electrical generators for core-critical infrastructure getting more efficient -- drawing previously wasted heat to be used to heat facility.

    https://www1.eere.energy.gov/buildings/publications/pdfs/alliances/hea_chp_fs.pdf

    Factories and hospitals often generate their own electricity or have the capability when grid is down. Individual households should have generators also. Note that these are primary targets for theft, therefore must have firearms and personnel for 24 hr perimeter control. During power outages, I've shared power with neighbor. Make friends if possible, but must be very careful. Better to choose defendable house/business and concentrate responsible family members and/or friends made in the military.
     
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  9. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    Here is something to think about. In the USA only 2% of the population live on farms. The current population is approx. 329.5 million. 8.9 percent of farms account for 75 percent of the farm revenue generated in the USA. So in a grid down event, less than 7 million are going to need to feed 322.5 million --- by hand. There will not be enough time or man power to save 98% of the population. When the grid goes down, if you can't protect and grow / provide your own food, you will not survive. The math is simple, facing the facts is not so simple. If you carry this out a bit further, you will see that it will be more like 1.5 million soon after the grid goes down and from there we will lose more to disease, accidents, violence, drought, and of course crop failure. Basic numbers, less than 1% of the American population will survive a grid down vent.
     
  10. Sourdough

    Sourdough "ALASKAN"
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    Translation............Why do people live where there is "NOT" abundant free food.....???
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2019
  11. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    Because that is were most of the jobs and schools are. Raising and educating a family out in the wilderness is a mighty tough job and most people do not have the skills or resources.
     
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  12. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    define "free" food! if you mean wild food(as opposed to animals) most people wont touch it, they prefer to buy it in a supermarket in those nice plastic containers all neatly wrapped up with stickers on it saying what it is.
    10 years ago when we moved here kids would pick blackberries in the fall, now we are the only ones doing it.
    as for hunting, forget it over here, all city dwellers are anti gun, and anti hunting, even if they were given a dead animal they would run away screaming(they wouldn't know how to butcher it anyway). post SHTF they wouldn't have anything to cook it on either( no electricity).
    1.5 % of the UK population works in agriculture and they produce just under 60% of the food we eat. if we had to be self sufficient in food production(no imports) with the current UK population we would run out of all food about August time, of course if there were no imports we would run out of pesticides and fertiliser too as that is all imported so we would run out of food a lot sooner.
     
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    1. Old Geezer
      Kind of ikky, soylent greenish, but I wonder if hills of human bodies (urbanites not prepared for the unhappy occasions) would produce decent compost. They might could be reduced by chemicals or fire into a potent powder fit for the fields. What do you think? Post SHTF musical lyrics, "♫♫♪♫ ♪ The hills are alive with the smell of rot♫ting! ♫♪♫"
       
      Old Geezer, Sep 29, 2019
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  13. Sourdough

    Sourdough "ALASKAN"
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    I wonder what the deal is with the Alaska power grid, Currently......???? For sure it is not all intertied. But they have been intertying it more and more the last few decades. I continue to think hacking is the largest potential problem. Seems far more probable then EMP.
     
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  14. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    The Army of the People's Republic of China has an entire section dedicated to cyber warfare. They have already tested such viruses on sections of U.S. infrastructure. Our universities are full of Chinese graduate students who are communist operatives and people who will return to the PRC to build chemical and biological warfare agents to be used on Western nations. They will also man the ranks of the computer warfare units.

    The likelihood of cyber-attack during any conflict between any Western nation and China is extraordinarily high. Or China could pull a first strike of their own and make the attack look like an attack originating in North Korea or Eastern Europe.

    Look what we and Israel did to the Iranian uranium centrifuges. Stuxnet was used to burn out the motors on those units.

    Pandora's box is wide open on this nasty. Americans and Western Europeans are addicted to electricity. If only their computers and iPhones went dead, the people would go bat-sh## crazy. I'm not kidding. I'm talking an actual deep psychological addiction.
     
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  15. Sourdough

    Sourdough "ALASKAN"
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    I have for decades stated that Alaska could be easily captured by China or Russia. America in attempting to recapture Alaska, would destroy all infrastructure, and most humans in the attempt...........and would likely fail.
     
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  16. Sonofliberty

    Sonofliberty Master Survivalist
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    If America would do all that damage trying to recapture, wouldn't China or Russia do the same damage in the original invasion?
     
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  17. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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  18. Sourdough

    Sourdough "ALASKAN"
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    Well if Alaska was well protected.......Yes.

    But there is very-very little military in Alaska.
    The largest known GOLD deposit on earth is in Alaska, and it has never been mined. Massive oil deposits nearly everywhere in Alaska. Huge deposits of "Rare Earth Minerals" in Alaska. These are things China needs to replace America as the dominate world power.

    So China would not destroy Alaska during the invasion. Plus there is nearly zero military here to impede the invasion. There is nearly zero U.S. Infantry in Alaska, nearly zero ground troops, or military type ground transportation.

    Currently the total population of Alaska is roughly 730,000 humans. China could send "TWO or THREE MILLION" to secure Alaska if they chose to.

    But America would not send ground troop to recapture Alaska. They would piss and moan at the U.N. and bomb the shit out of Alaska till it was largely destroyed.

    However if China pushed forward down through Canada, that is where America would concentrate it's defensive effort.

    With the melting polar ice cap, the new most valuable location for military control, is the newly opened water passage over the North American Continent. Russia is going wide'ass open building bases and military out posts all along this new route. If the China-Russia axis can control both sides of this new passage that would be a massive power shift.
     
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  19. Sonofliberty

    Sonofliberty Master Survivalist
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    Sorry, but they could not. First, they lack the shipping capacity to move that many people in any reasonable time frame. Second and much more importantly, it would be logistically impossible for them to feed even 1/4 that number of people at that distance and that is if the USN doesn't even act to stop them. Food alone would make it impossible, let alone fuel clothes, ammo. Not possible.

    ETA: A quick check shows that China has enough sealift capacity to support 5000 men for 30 days to North Korea. Alaska is impossible for them.
     
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  20. Sonofliberty

    Sonofliberty Master Survivalist
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  21. Sourdough

    Sourdough "ALASKAN"
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    You do realize that China and Russia are closer to Alaska then America is to Alaska.
    They could come in UNDER the ice and capture the massive oil fields in a few hours, on December 25'th.
     
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  22. Sourdough

    Sourdough "ALASKAN"
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    Also they would have the advantage of covertly staging everything needed. They could capture the air bases (all there really is in Alaska is a few air bases) and quickly jump to going down the Alcan Hwy. to attack mainland America. I thing America would figure deal with Alaska later, and urgently move to stop or slow movement down the Alcan.

    Plus America Loathes troops on the ground. America is set-up to destroy shit form the air with F-16 and F-22 and F-35 and rocket shit.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2019
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  23. Sourdough

    Sourdough "ALASKAN"
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    Also remember they have five and will soon have EIGHT massive nuclear powered "Trillion Ton" Ice Breakers.........We got SQUAT for massive ice breakers.
     
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  24. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    I think Canada would have a few things to say about an invasion of Alaska.
     
  25. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    In the preparation game, the Scandinavian countries beat Canada hands-down.

    Rather than lose our oil assets in Alaska, our military will "salt" the oilfields up there with radioactive contaminants. It's the old "poison pill" response. "If we can't have it, nobody will."

    And, we've been pumping oil out of Alaska and pumping back into the ground in the Gulf States. Doing the same with Canadian shale deposits. Our reserves are way up there. This is why Trump was able to tell the Middle East to go "stick it" when they threatened embargoes. And America has natural gas and the gas turbines to turn it into electricity. Militarily, we can go off-grid and generate power for necessary operations. With Jarrett/Obama regime gone, our military is no longer under attack. Another leftist regime comes in and our military may ask the commies to go back home, or else ... Me, if I turn on the TV and the military has taken over the government, I'm NOT going to panic. Won't be pleasant, but better than communism.
     
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  26. Morgan101

    Morgan101 Master Survivalist
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    I think the issue with grid repair and grid security is ownership. I believe all of the utility companies are privately owned. The cost of replacing aging equipment, and securing the facility should be the responsibility of the owner; not the Government. The Utility companies will run the equipment until the wheels fall off, and it has to be replaced. The sole motivating factor is profit. They won't do anything until they absolutely have to, or if somebody else is paying for it.
     
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  27. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good afternoon Morgan,

    Part of the profit motive is government requirements of a public utility. Public utilities have obligations that are "spelled-out".

    Ref word "should"; The cost of replacing aging equipment in Virginia is transferred to the customers.

    Overall, you're right. Shareholders of public utilities, at least in Virginia, prefer that the customers pay the costs. The state legislature agrees with this.

    I do not know about other places like the bankruptcy of PG&E California - actually I do - but I'm just addressing this area.
     
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  28. Sonofliberty

    Sonofliberty Master Survivalist
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    The real problem is that we went with a centralized grid system instead of a dispersed system where individual households generate their own power.
     
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  29. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Many, I myself included, consider one of the nastier SHTF events to be the electricity going off. NY, NY recently had a power outage in just one area. Wasn't it a few city blocks on Manhattan. One MSM story showed the locals partying and basically brushing it off. The mayor of NY didn't, indeed he said that "this can never happen again!"

    I think we are, if anything, under-balling the effect. Two days -- no real effect; maybe even parties. Three days to a full week -- not funny anymore. Some social disruption. Some folk begin to leave the city.

    One to two weeks, things start coming apart civilization-wise -- looting, robbing, people begin protesting, anger levels begin getting well into the rage region. Add the beginnings of panic among the sheeple. Means of getting out or getting fed are diminishing. Local emergency services are drained. Providers of aid begin being attacked. Only the beginnings of federal aid attempt to enter areas in need. Transportation methodologies are getting royally compromised -- forget highways and streets. Even railroad access is seeing obstacles -- large vehicles and stranded trains block rail lines.

    Three weeks to two months, the military is sent in. FEMA's help proves to be a "day late and a dollar short". Many deaths have occurred. Those who were not able to get out and who are unable to defend themselves against the folk who've gone feral are past the terrified level and are in overt panic mode. Hundreds of deaths are reported ... which is a lie. Actually thousands have died. Human bodies and trash are not cleaned up. The city now has major fires that are not being fought. Trash is burning. The stench will gag anyone getting near. Airborne help, via military, is basically all that actually moves anything. Distribution points must have a military perimeter established, else mobs overrun the place in what some will describe as "the zombie apocalypse".

    I've had the New York region in mind, but does it really matter?! When power grids go down, all bets are off as to the radius of the effect. What if it is hundreds of miles! We've read in other posts that regions could go dark, i.e. a thousand+ miles wide.

    Too many people are too dependent on too little. And the people of our day are in no way even semi-prepared. I think we preppers are actually "not getting it" / not fully understanding to what degree civilization will degrade. Preppers in England fully understand that they are surrounded by a sea. Everybody is going to take the highway to France? I don't see that happening. I don't see ships getting the job done. And would France or anybody else take to many refugees when they themselves could be in open collapse?!

    At least a nuclear war would burn-off many of the problems (to include the people).
     
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  30. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning Old Geezer,

    Agree. Even a large segment of the prepper community is not tuned into this.

    A decent reference: https://www.insurancejournal.com/news/east/2019/07/15/532235.htm .

    The NYC power outage was 13 July 19.

    Note in above link: NYFD responding to "numerous stuck elevators" and "temporarily disrupting flights".

    The Manhattan outage of a few weeks ago was on the anniversary of the 13 July 77 outage where rioting and looting occurred.

    Ref "Local emergency services are drained" and "fed aid attempt to enter areas in need"; I don't think it can be done with success. NYC overall - all 5 boros - has 800,000 disabled (the official number) of all categories. In blunt and morbid terms, ... if dead bodies are not retrieved by mortuary squads with their mort trailers, diseases magnify.

    I don't know if military airlift help would be available to non-critical infrastructure (in broad sense of the term) of NYC. Military programs are like FEMA and local responder orgs: minimal.

    In my personal view, nuc warfare is subordinated to bio-warfare. The US has no over - whelming superiority with the germs.

    Fortunately for me, I am no pessimist; just a realist.
     
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  31. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    once the power grid fails then society will collapse.
    sheeple cannot live without electricity, it underpins everything they do from their alarm clock to their cup of coffee to their daily showers to traffic lights and filling stations on the way to work to elevators and automatic doors in their place of work.
     
  32. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    OG, you have the correct scenario but the wrong time line. By day two the looting will have happen and the killing will start by day three. No power, means no water. All the stores will be looting for anything drinkable by the second day. Due to the weight of liquid and the number of people looting, the thieves will not get enough to last more that a day or two. The government is always a day late and a dollar short. It will an extremely ugly event and that will just be the beginning.
     
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  33. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    1 pint of water weighs 1 lb, a gallon of water weighs over 8lbs, people aren't going to be able to carry much.
    once the water in the stores is all looted they will be looking at any water source, how many sheeple have even heard of filtering water never mind have a way to do it? they will be drinking anything they find in desperation and although it might look clean its probably full of microscopic nasties.
    once the mains water goes off there is also the question of hygiene and diseases.
     
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  34. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    Starvation - I haven't been to North Korea but have been told one enterprising family is selling dirt from a sewage ditch for their neighbors to eat . In most societies this kind of nastyness would kill them . Peoples biological systems can not handle this kind of disease ridden filth even if they were inclined to dine on such filth . Even some of the food Native Americans ate regularly would cause most people today to hurl up . I have tried eating grass when food was short , I couldn't keep it down .
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2019
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    1. lonewolf
      i'm not surprised you couldn't eat grass, you need 3 stomachs like a cow to consume grass, all you'd do is fill your stomach but not gain any nutrients from it, probably make you very ill.
       
      lonewolf, Oct 2, 2019
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  35. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Your insight from a person living in England is valuable. Our urban areas are toast (made over a fire, not a toaster, they are electric now days).

    In S.Appalachia, three days to a week was a real inconvenience, but no one was gonna die. Lotta wood stoves, fireplaces (with inserts), kerosene workshop heaters, kerosene lamps, candles, ...

    Our woodstove in the basement got so hot while cooking suppers that we had to open a basement window and chimney the heat to the main floor. We were without electricity one time for a week. Big thing was that the fallen trees had pushed the power lines onto the ground -- danger, power had to be cut.
     
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  36. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    Few people in the U.S. or most places will survive if the electricity is lost on a national scale one year or more . People are not prepared or have the right grit . Owning a wild plant book might help but not as much as most think . Some things they list as eatable really are not . Have you ever tried eating sassafras leaves ? They are awful but I have seen them in at least one book . Have you tried eating pine tree bark ? How many cattails do you have available to feed your family ? Dock is commonly listed but will make you sick if not prepared in a particular way . I actually enjoy pope weed on occasion but it to will make you sick if not prepared correctly and is considered poisonous by some . . Have you got your pack of seeds , shovel and a hoe "great" ? expect to live on something else for several months until your garden comes in , because there really is no Jack and the been stalk seeds . I would also plan to sleep in or near my garden to guard against the sheeple . How many jar lids do you have in your stash ? One quart jar of food per day per family would mean three hundred and sixty five lids per year . To step away from the depressing stuff , the biggest and centuries old tested and proven to work survival technique is to have a domestic critter to help you survive .
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2019
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  37. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    The grass eating episode I earlier mentioned was when I was a child and had a bloated stomach from starvation . That I suppose is one of several reasons I take survival / prepping very serious .
     
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  38. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    most houses and ALL new houses in England are all electric, no fireplaces and no chimneys, the government now wants to ban gas boilers in all new houses, WHEN the power grid collapses I think you can all guess what the result will be, a lot of cold hungry people sitting in the dark.
     
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    1. Old Geezer
      Holy crap!
       
      Old Geezer, Oct 3, 2019
  39. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    We seem to be all in agreement the loss of the power grid permanently and nationally would be disasterous . It would only stand to reason an adversary would also know this and be studying ways to use this to attack their opponent . The length and scope of such an attack seems to be the most debatable . The less people are able to cope with such an scenario the more they seem to deny its possibility . I personally conclude , that by denying it , makes them feel more secure .
     
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  40. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    well yes, its the "it'll never happen" brigade.
     
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  41. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    I call them the Ostrich folks.
     
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  42. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    The problem that we are facing in the US is an inevitable problem that has its roots in our democratic/capitalist structure. The problem is simple. You can't get elected or stay in office if you insist on doing what needs to be done if it includes raising taxes or making the voters do anything that they don't want to do. On the business side of this, a CEO can only do what is good for the next quarterly dividend. If he or she instead does what needs to be done for the long term benefit of the company and it results in a short term reduction in the dividends paid out to the stockholders he won't be there for long.

    It was this problem that brought Enron down a few years ago. they had a small short term cash-flow problem. It could have been easily fixed by taking out a loan, reducing the dividend payout for one quarter or just admitting the problem and cutting back spending. If the CEO had done any of these he would have been fire immediately. So instead he bought a bunch of investment businesses, made them dump their holdings and then buy Enron stock. this made them insolvent and they started to fall and he got caught and Enron fell.

    This is basically the problem that our infrastructure is in now. It is in desperate need of updating and repair but if a company tried to do it they are going to have to raise the cost of their product and people will freak out. the government won't allow then to raise their prices enough to do it and if they try and lose money the stockholders will bailout and they will go bankrupt. If anyone in the government tried to get it done and supports either raising prices or the government helping with the cost and raises taxes to pay for it they will be out of office.

    Our system is set up in such a way that hard decisions are nearly impossible to make without a war to scare people into allowing it.
     
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  43. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    "Pope weed" do you mean poke weed? Maybe they have different names. Is pope weed different that poke weed?

    Where I'm from, dock was called "dockry". Why, I got no idea. I've et it and it's bitter even after boilings. Yes, "et" or just "ate" I heard the word "eaten" on television. Up in the hills, "We did done et."

    Poke greens will poison th'hell out'a you iffen you ain't boil'em twiste times proper. Poke weed must not be picked except when VERY young. When the red/purple color starts up the main stem, it has gone too ripe. Pick only the little baby poke weeds. This following article is ever so correct in telling folk to boil them twice else they will give you cramps from Hades:

    https://thegrownetwork.com/weed-garden-pokeweed/

    This article talks about poke being medicinal. It kills viruses they say. My grandma considered it a form of greens and as a medicine. She was herbalist born at the very end of the 1800's, but had probably never heard the word "herbalist". She used catnip a lot for making tea -- settles the gut, i.e. just the opposite of what poke does. Need a "flushing-out"? Poke greens are just the ticket. Grandma always mixed poke with curly mustard. Poke grows wild. Grows all around my property ... and everybody else's property. Grows everydangplace. This "poke weeds" comes from "put these greens in your poke". A poke is a cloth sack or in recent decades, a paper sack. In my day they were burlap.

    In spring, even now heading into fall, I could go out and pick a pickup truck load of poke greens by noon.

    Sassafras tea is made from the roots -- thus, the name "root-beer". It also grows wild here. Hot sassafras tea will also settle the stomach. You'll see it at the edge of forests. The mountain ranges I live within -- solid forest -- travel one thousand five hundred miles South to North or North to South, ... however you want to measure. There are all kinds of primitive roads headed up in there. VERY few roads actually cross -- might take you up a hollar. There's such a crossing road every 30 to 50 miles ... maybe. I'm a scouter. You can run into "you ain't Even invited no wharz near hyar" (you are not invited anywhere near here) rather rapidly back in them thar hollars. Even today. Back when, you'd a had many a set of eyes on you and they'd not be filled with love.

    My grandmother's back porch was an out'n'out fire hazard what with all the drying herbs, and beans, strings of sewn peppers ... I don't know what all. Then too, there was the smell of sauerkraut "working" in HUGE steel cylindrical pots.

    Taking out the trash? Throw all the waste vegetable matter into the compost pile. Haul the coal furnace clinkers out to the road and pound them into the potholes with a sledge hammer turned upside down the head now being the pile driver. That's me in grammar school, I was a bit taller than the 9 lb hammer's handle. I stoked that hellish furnace, also. Melt your eyebrows when opening its door.

     
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  44. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    You are correct OLD GEEZER I miss spelled it . I did mean poke weed .,Like your Grandmother my Grandfather strongly believed in the medicinal benefits of Poke weed and was sure to eat some each spring .
     
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  45. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning TexDanm,

    Ref the above Enron essay;

    Well said. You explained America's nearly unique political environment and situation.

    The US is the first, largest nation-state with large competing politico-economic interests fighting to increase their own share of the economic pie chart. Here there were no Caesars, no Czars, no Kaisers, no Archbishops of Canterbury.

    Most all pre Civil War was embryonic development. Just "go west" to a new life. The US Government gave some help.

    After the Civil War, 3 large groups copied the economic redemption programs for the Freedmen - the former slaves. We saw the farmers demanding better rail rates for their crops. We saw labor organizations get developed. We saw the women's temperance movement become a national force. Later came a military complex industry.

    Farming and river boats are now "old school". Now we see real estate establishments eg pushing coastal living. There are ~ 1,500 new house permits issued for coastal areas per day. Fortunately, at least from my perspective, this is being stopped with phase-out of FEMA's "flood insurance" subsidy. The US map you posted yesterday with crops per state showed Hawaii WITHOUT a pineapple crop. So true, We lost to foreign pineapples. Foreign nations won't buy Boeing aircraft if the US doesn't buy their competitive ag products.

    Slowly I see our somewhat unique national politico-economic problem getting resolved. The example I use as being the clearest is the Trump tariff matters. When Team Trump challenged China on the tariff arrangements, there were anticipated aspects of "collateral damage" to the US. One "collateral" matter was that China would stop buying US soybeans. I am guessing this was the real goal of this specific tariff dispute. The US, via USDA, subsidizes soybean production. This, in turn, allowed China to establish the world's largest hog industry - because of the US subsidy ! Trump is stopping this.

    There's some more examples but not appropriate to type up here other than a brief mention of US (and Canadian) shale oil changing the scene. I believe Team Trump induced Qatar to leave OPEC. OPEC is a shell still existing because it serves US interests to confront Russia for now.

    ...

    Some of the Enron honchos took a "hit" but they really didn't do anything different than the other companies. The Supremes sided with much of the Enron appellate work. Of course, "fall guys" are part of the national picture.
     
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  46. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    The Enron executives that got nailed and prosecuted were most all prosecuted for insider trading infractions. They knew Enron was in trouble and instead of trying to do anything and telling this to the public they started selling their stock. This sudden sell off caused a panic that in the end sped up the Enron collapse. This sort of action is illegal. I believe this is the same thing that landed Martha Stewart in prison.

    We need to find a way to put more "Americans" in office and get rid of the Democrats and Republicans that feel that their FIRST allegiance is to their party and not to their country or their constituents. I also think that elected officials should be a one and done thing. That way their decisions could be what is needed and right and not JUST what will get them elected again. I think that the idea of the Founding Fathers was for us to be ruled by statesmen elected from among our peers and not to have an elite ruling class of professional politicians that have nothing in common with those they rule. They need to go to Washington do their time there and then have to go out get a job and live under the laws and rules that they made.
     
  47. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning TexDanm,

    Enron definitely relates to the fall of Arthur Anderson accountancy, one of the world's largest auditing firms, also.

    Some of the key Enron execs, Skilling, Andrew Flatow, hid info from the Enron Board of Directors. Arthur Anderson, the CPA firm, was forced to "look the other way". I'm sure it's fair to say founder, CEO Ken Lay, knew what was going on.

    Goldman Sachs did about the same as Enron - and is still glorified. One of the British pro-Enron witnesses committed suicide in a London park. At least we know about this suicide. Much hidden politics re Enron's collapse.

    Martha Stewart I consider completely different. She got jail time because she avoided a loss of less than $50,000 based on advice from her stock broker / fin adviser ... this was the transaction called "insider trading" ... as if Martha Stewart reviewed fin documents and sought second and third opinions. My belief is that she was a "show case" to display "fairness". Everyone in America is equal.

    Ref para 2; I do not have an answer even in broad, general terms. I do not even have a suggestion for a first step long-haul approach. I once was with the political department of an oil company and saw the court intrigue up in the Swamp.

    The only sliver of advice ... you also had mentioned to forum members to participate in politics ... that I participate in, is to participate in some of the political programs such as disaster prep and the related. Of course the contractors eclipse the citizenry.

    Again, no answers; just early AM rambling that maybe some younger participant can polish and get addressed in the political arena..
     
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  48. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    we have 3 core systems in the modern world, communications, banking and finance, and the power grid, the power grid is the weak link, once that goes down it will take the other systems down as well, probably within a week or two but it could be days.
    phones would be down, so would the ATM's so no access to cash and card readers wouldn't work without electricity nor would the tills as no one has a manual override these days, so the only way anyone will get any food is by looting, so that's societal collapse as well!!
     
    TMT Tactical likes this.
  49. Sourdough

    Sourdough "ALASKAN"
      452/460

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