The problem with canned goods

Discussion in 'Food Storage - Canning/Freezing/Butchering/Prep' started by OursIsTheFury, Jun 8, 2016.

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  1. OursIsTheFury

    OursIsTheFury Expert Member
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    I can see where you guys are coming from. Stockpiling canned goods at a cellar somewhere would probably be a jackpot decision if you ever need a long term food source that won't spoil easily, but the problem with food, and even canned food can't escape this, is the fact that they have an expiration date. Years maybe, but eventually, your stockpile is going to be pretty useless, and when the time is nearing that you will need to replace your whole stock, you will be left eating stale canned foods that have been in your cellar for years. What do you guys think about this? Any alternatives or solutions?
     
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  2. ally79

    ally79 Member
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    Home canned foods can last 20 plus years, so it would be a very long time before you had to worry about spoilage. To me the disadvantages of canned foods are that they are difficult to transport. That's why we dehydrate a lot of food as well.
     
  3. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    If you want to make a cache some place away from where you live, I suggest that you stick to dry foods, & store them in poly sewer pipes with screw on ends. These have rubber seals & can be purchased from any plumbers. You can drop some moisture absorbing sachets into these pipes before burying.
    Keith.
     
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  4. cluckeyo

    cluckeyo Well-Known Member
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    The way to do a stockpile of canned goods, is to lay out the cash for a good supply of what you want and store them under the beds or wherever. But immediately start using them. Then, rotating back to front, replenish them regularly. It won't cost a lot to keep them replenished. But by using them all along the way, you are guaranteed fresh food at all times.
     
  5. Arkane

    Arkane Master Survivalist
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    Expiration dates are just trousers!
    They are for covering ones Arse! legal wise.

    Most canned goods will last longer than the kid on the canning production line.

    And up until it all go's arse up you should be rotating stock!
     
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  6. DecMikashimota

    DecMikashimota New Member
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    The proper response to expired canned food is to learn how find own food and find any extensive methods of preserving that food. Once your knowledge of how to create your own version of the preserving processes is reliable then you will have less reason to be concerned.
     
  7. tb65

    tb65 Active Member
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    This is why you have to change things every year. After a year of saving non perishable food you should have enough to last you just that long. This is the best way to avoid food spoiling or passing the expiration date. At the end of the year all you have to do is use your non perishable food, and start all over again for the next year.
     
  8. richj8am30

    richj8am30 Member
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    One way storing Canned Vegetables that their shelf life is extended after the expiration date has to do with the temperature. You can help canned vegetables stay crisp longer by putting them away in a storeroom that has a consistent temperature of under 75 degrees Fahrenheit. Be attentive upon opening the canned food then. Just make sure that there are no unrecognizable black or discolored ingredients in the can and you should be able to still eat it without
     
  9. CivilDefense

    CivilDefense Expert Member
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    That is why you stock items you actually use and rotate through said. First in, first one (FIFO) is the rule. Some canned goods last a very long time indeed. And, naturally, dried items should be part of the mix.
     
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  10. Arkane

    Arkane Master Survivalist
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    today I opened and ate a can of baked beans with a useby date of 1998
    All good!
     
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  11. crimsonghost747

    crimsonghost747 New Member
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    This. And it's not like you need to eat that canned food everyday, rather just use some once in a while and the supply will keep rotating slowly but surely. Say you have 100 cans of food A... even eating one can per two weeks would make you rotate through your supply every 4 years, which should definitely be fast enough.
     
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  12. joshposh

    joshposh Expert Member
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    Canned goods do last longer then that is noted. I've done it a lot of times and it taste just fine. Canned goods is not the only stored goods you can stock pile. You also can store up some MREs. Those last for a long time as well. But as a prepper your stock pile should not be your only source of food. You need something sustainable, and having a garden or livestock can be replenish. To live only on canned goods would be foolish.

    Canned goods is not a problem. The person thinking that it will last forever is the problem. You need options.
     
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  13. SouthernMama

    SouthernMama Active Member
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    I have quite a large stockpile of canned goods, I think they are important to have. I rotate my stockpile so that the oldest are always used first. I mainly have the canned goods for emergency weather situations, hurricanes etc.
     
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  14. jeager

    jeager Master Survivalist
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    Trousers have expiration dates?
    I never knew.
    I sure am learning a lot here. :>)

    Did you know one can suffer malnutritian from eating only rabbits.

    However eating squirrels is quite healthy.
     
  15. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    yes, its called Rabbit Starvation, some of the old gold miners in the American west died because they had only rabbits to eat.
     
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  16. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    cans of food are not a replacement for other food post SHTF, they are a substitute for when you cant get fresh food either by growing/rearing/ hunting/ snaring/ foraging/fishing, because of inclement weather-storms etc, or your waiting for your first harvest , or because its plain not safe to go out.
     
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  17. jeager

    jeager Master Survivalist
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    I think of canned goods as something to fall back on until I can get
    better.
    I trap, have snares, hunt, fish, have guns and ammo.
    I want very much to learn more about smoke curing meats and sun drying
    veggies.
    It seems like these are good ways to preserve foods.
    I have a food drier but haven't used it in years.
    I need dig it out, clean it up, and make sure it still works.
    I used to make beef jerky in the oven.
    http://www.thekitchn.com/recipe-homemade-beef-or-turkey-snack-recipes-from-the-kitchn-95962

    One of many sites on the web.
    Lots of info on the web about almost anything at our finger tips.
    Love it.
     
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  18. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    correct, its a "fall back" position for when you cant get fresh, and is only supposed to last for a limited time, say 12 months maximum.
     
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  19. jeager

    jeager Master Survivalist
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    Here:
    30+ Years Dry beans Lentils Rolled or whole oats Pearled barley Pasta Potato flakes Cocoa powder White rice Corn Wheat
    Indefinite Sugar Honey Salt Baking powder Baking soda Cornstarch Shelf life is very much affected by storage conditions and will be shortened considerably by storing the food where it is subjected to extreme heat, wide temperature fluctuations, moisture, or exposure to pests.
    The very best way to make food storage shelf life not matter so much is to rotate your food storage and use the food in your every day meals. If I am using my food storage properly, I won’t have any of it in my pantry for thirty years since it will be used and replaced long before it expires! Then it doesn’t matter if my peanut butter expires in 2 years or 30 years since I used it within a year of purchasing it. For more assistance with your own food storage plan plus lots of other helpful tips, get your own copy of my book, Food Storage for Self Sufficiency and Survival.
    http://foodstorageandsurvival.com/food-storage-shelf-life/

    I don't post anything I haven't done research on and/or experienced.

    30 + years for some dried food goods is now well past my lifetime.
    I've eaten home canned high acid foods that were 3 years old and it was
    fine.
    Samo with high sugar fruits.
    Careful storage is essential.
    Cool dark, dry.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2017
  20. Arkane

    Arkane Master Survivalist
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    Trousers have expiration dates?
    I never knew.
    I sure am learning a lot here. :>)

    When you get up in the morning what do you put on to cover your ARSE?? Trousers! so expiry dates are like trousers they are just covering a business's legal Arse!
    so not to get it kicked in court!
     
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  21. jeager

    jeager Master Survivalist
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    Ohhhhhhhhh, well DUH on me!
    Thanks.
     
  22. explorerx7

    explorerx7 Expert Member
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    Canned food is one of the best things to have in the event of a disaster. It may still maintain it's integrity even after being exposed to many adverse conditions. However, the life of canned foods is not infinite and it's usually produced with an expiry date, this means it's not advisable that the content should be consumed after the prescribed date because it could be harmful to the consumer.
     
  23. Okaviator

    Okaviator Member
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    I completely agree with you. And I would just like to add the fact that canned food loses a bunch of its nutrients over time. So after 5+ years of storing a can of food it will start to lose its nutrients.
     
  24. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    5 years? in the UK if you can store 1years worth your doing well, most haven't got anything like that.
     
  25. zackdsilvis

    zackdsilvis New Member
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    Canned food is good if it's like vegetables or something basic. But canned meats are good like corned beef.

    Canning your own is simple once you learn how to do it.
     
  26. Dallas845

    Dallas845 New Member
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    Also need to watch out for other factors, not just the expiration date. https://zamonthly.org/2019/01/09/prepper-pro-tip-beware-of-botulism/
     
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  27. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    I never was good at math , but the amount of food you would need to feed a family of four for one year with canned goods would be enormous . Are you really going to be able to store that mound of canned goods and rotate it's use to prevent it getting too old ? Having a supply of canned goods on hand sounds great , but a year or more on hand I find questionable . As for canning your own during the gardening season in canning jars , have you guys considered the huge pile of jar lids you will need ? Maybe I am overlooking something . My plan - yes I have emergency food in the stash but I don't expect it to feed our clan for years . Instead I plan to resupply during the winter mainly with venison with a large portion of that turned into jerky or salt meat . During the summer I have a large creek that would be considered a river by some that is full of fish for summer food supply . Of course gardening during the summer to help with the diet . But probably most important of all , my milk goats will provide about three quarter gallon of milk daily for about nine months of the year . I am considering increasing my nanny goat herd thus increasing my potential milk production . After pondering over it a bit . Perhaps those depending only on canned goods just aren't thinking as long term as I am . For just a few weeks of some kind of catastrophe I could see the canned good plan being viable . Long term I doubt canned goods alone would leave a family surviving .
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2019
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  28. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    All things in moderation. Canning and canned goods to supplement hunting, fishing, gardening and gathering. No one method is adequate or good planning.
     
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  29. Caribou

    Caribou Master Survivalist
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    Canned goods will last as long as the seal is good. Canned food has been tested, and passed, that was over 100 years old. I have eaten my own canned fish that was 20 years old and it was as good as the day I put it in the jar. Part of the answer would be a supply of Tattler reusable lids. I have Tattler lids that are close to 40 years old and they are still good. Eating a years worth, or ten, out of a can is quite doable.
     
  30. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    they have found canned goods in Scots camp in the Antartic, when opened they were still good.
     
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  31. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    I have tried before to find someone that can tell me about their experience reusing the tattler reusable lids but never found a response . Caribou or for that matter can anyone on here share their experience using reusable lids ?
     
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  32. Caribou

    Caribou Master Survivalist
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    As I said, have Tattler lids that are close to 40 years old that I still use. I bought a dozen used Tattler lids at a garage sale 35 or 40 years ago. About 10 or 15 years ago I bought a case and a half more. I figure that I have lids for the rest of my life.
     
  33. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning Poltiregist,

    Overall, in basic agreement involving North Americans.

    It is possible and realistic to have a multi-year inventory of canned foods. It does require a large building eg a dedicated barn that's "climate controlled". The project is really establishing a warehouse with a large inventory. Two of my group members have restaurants so food costs are reduced but all else has a cost and it includes time consumption.

    For my personal environment and situation, bambi venison and fresh seafood is not realistic. Reason one is my contingency plans that I will have medical conditions/ailments precluding anything other than opening a can or food envelope. Reason two is to maintain a flat to low profile.

    ...

    I will never consume Tang orange poison nor any cheddar cheese product.

    ...

    I am now in the mood for a triple hash browns and coffee.
     
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  34. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    canned food is okay in a normal situation but post SHTF the problem will be getting resupplied, if one lives off canned food only then there comes a time when it runs out.
    canned food should post SHTF be a supplement not a replacement for fresh food, as and when that is available, there is really no substitute for fresh food, a diet solely consisting of canned food is not good for health reasons, all canned food is processed food and is high in chemicals and preservatives and other nasty things so should be taken in moderation.
    in a SHTF situation we should not rely on just one food source.
     
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  35. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning Lone Wolf,

    Specifically, you're right.

    Yet, many variables are presented here at MSF.COM.

    Of course, canned food is not healthy for long term consumption but after a SHTF/TEOTW environment, many of us, for non-food reasons, will have a personal shelf life measurement well prior to the super-salted canned kippers causing dangerously high blood pressure.
     
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  36. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    very true.
    we rotate all our cans so that none are out of date, not that I personally take much notice of such dates, they are mostly for supermarkets use so they don't get sued for food poisoning and the like.
    any dented tins are used first, otherwise its first in first out.
    we generally eat as much fresh as we can, we are in an area where we have a weekly market and all our meat is sourced from there, eggs are bought locally not from a commercial producer.
    we probably only consume 2 cans per week and that's usually baked beans .
     
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  37. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    Thanks for the info and especially to Caribou . Using reusable lids for forty years is great information .I am thinking I will stock up on some of those reusable lids . ---- Another question when canning fish , as I have never canned fish , are they over cooked or soft textured when the jar is opened ? We have used both methods , canning with a pressurized canner and the open water bath . Actually my wife is the more knowledgeable when it comes to canning than me . Which method would be more suitable for canning fish ?
     
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  38. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    Using the one year time span simply because that is how long the E.M.P. Commison said it would be " at least " the length of time it would take to restore electricity to a nation if they were E.M.P. attacked . Doing some math for a four person group living on food from metal cans "as glass canning jars could potentially be refilled during a calendar year ". Figuring two 15 oz. cans per person per day for four people comes to 2,920 cans . As Pragmatist said " that is possible " but to me that sure seems like a lot of cans . As LoneWolf pointed out what if the situation has not improved when the cans run out ?
     
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  39. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    I was told a long time ago that if an EMP blew all the connectors in the UK power grid it would take 2 years to replace them all, they are not kept on the shelf and have to be specially ordered, from a foreign supplier, ordering, making and shipping would take several months for each one then they have to be fitted, if they can find enough enginers, in the meantime the British population is sitting in the dark, the cold with no way of cooking food, you see the problem? most of them would be dead long before the lights came back on, if it did.
    even if it was "only" one year it would still be too late for most people.
     
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  40. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    Another consideration in case of an E.M.P. , What if the supplier for the needed electrical parts WAS the aggressor ? What if the electrical part supplier was held hostage from supplying those needed parts under threat of them also being E.M.P. attacked ? The needed parts may NEVER arrive .
     
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  41. lonewolf

    lonewolf Legendary Survivalist Staff Member
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    exactly, permanent darkness. societal collapse ensues.
     
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  42. CountryGuy

    CountryGuy Master Survivalist
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    Back on the can food... Not all of it is "full of chemicals" oh sure your Spaghettio's are but vegetables are not. But they all are processed at high temps (commercial or home) and that causes various nutrients to be destroyed in the process. Obviously home canned goods are only going to have in them what you add.

    Can you store enough to live forever, no. But can you have 3 months, 6 months a year stored up in your home, yes. But don't just go buy crap you don't eat. I believe I've mentioned this elsewhere in the forum, and I don't know if he originated with him but the only person I ever heard describe it is Jack Spirko over at The Survival Podcast for years has been recommending what he terms "copy canning". In a way it's like Dave Ramsey's Debt Snowball. For a couple weeks to a month make a food journal and lay it on the kitchen counter Anytime anyone eats anything or you use something to make food write it down - everytime you use something. After the initial use make a tally mark next to it in your log. So this goes for canned food as well as staples. At the end of your chosen timeframe look at what you used and how often. Now next time you go shopping instead of buying your normal 2 cans, buy 4. and keep repeating and each week you'll gain 2 cans. So lets say you find you use a can of green beans every week. well that's 4 a month so a 4 month stock would be 16 cans. Next week when you shop, instead of buying one can buy 2 (if it's on a good sale buy a few). Now maybe you start with a goal to have a month saved. well as your budget affords buy a few extra and move down the list. Once you have a month saved, go for a second. Dating things and using FIFO in your storage is critical to ensure you use the oldest items first.

    Planning to rely on a single food source is like playing Russian roulette. Be that thinking you can store all you need or thinking you can hunt or fish for all you need. Game will get scarce from over hunting and it'll move away from pressure. Fishing isn't guaranteed; what happens if or when the waterway is polluted from things upstream, be it chemicals being dumped in or people dumping their sewage in to get rid of it. And thinking a garden is all you need, what happens when bugs, deer or storms destroy it?

    Like everything in prepping and survival, 1 is none; 2 is 1; 3 is for me; 4 is more... and so on. You better have multiple plans to feed you and yours or you might find out how the Donner party ended up eating their neighbors...
     
  43. Caribou

    Caribou Master Survivalist
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    Primarily what I ca is salmon. All protein cooks for 90 minutes at 10psi so it is well done. You can eat it right out of the can, and I do with smoked salmon, but salmon salad, casseroles, and patties, where you add oil, like mayo or cheese, is the primary way I eat Cannes fish.
     
  44. Caribou

    Caribou Master Survivalist
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    I can't imagine that you would only eat canned food for a year, except if there was radiation contamination. Your canned goods are there to supplement your fresh food. If you are worried about the quality of the canned food then can your own and don't put in the chemicals.

    I'll round a bit but using your math it takes 3,000 cans to feed a family of four for a year. How does the math work out with 100 cans. You don't just have canned food. You store rice, sugar, flour, wheat berries, pasta, frozen food, condiments, spices, and so much more. Some people dry can their rice, sugar, etc. You need protein, veggies, and carbs. Fresh food is better but canned food provides the calories and vitamins that you need.
     
  45. Caribou

    Caribou Master Survivalist
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    I date my food when I acquire it. I check the date when I use it, this tells me how long I can expect to feed my family with that product. FIFO, first in first out is a system where you rarely have inedible food. I shop the sales to reduce the cost of food, or more accurately, to get more food with the same food budget. My goal is to keep the same diet for as long as possible. I follow the adage, eat the foods you store and store the foods you eat. I don't store a lot of "long term storage food". In other words, I don't store food in anticipation of a disaster. My food storage is constantly being eaten. My meal today was paid for at last years prices.
     
  46. CountryGuy

    CountryGuy Master Survivalist
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    Exactly! "Eat what you store and store what you eat!"
     
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  47. BigMak777

    BigMak777 New Member
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    I wanna get into preping food but have heard dry storing beans and rice can cause botulism. Is this true. I'm new to preping and it's all overwhelming to me
     
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  48. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    Dry beans and rice are no risk of botulism unless they get wet and start to ferment and rot.
     
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  49. CountryGuy

    CountryGuy Master Survivalist
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    Do you like beans and rice? Do you currently eat beans and rice monthly? weekly? Daily? Could you envision yourself eating them daily, like 2 or 3 meals a day? If not, why start with storing them first? Why store food you don't normally eat? I mean at some point you might want a bag of each along with some salt and say bullion and spices as a deep deep fall back to food. but I know I'm not a huge fan and I think it would be truly on borderline starvation to get my kids to eat them.

    Let me point you to a podcast that has an excellent discussion and outline on this for new and old hat pros both. Check out the show notes for a pretty good overview and then take a listen.

    http://www.thesurvivalpodcast.com/1759-food-storage

    http://www.thesurvivalpodcast.com/basics-of-food-storage-1673

    http://www.thesurvivalpodcast.com/basics-of-being-prepared-one
     
  50. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    We put dry pasta (like macaroni) into jars then drop in oxygen-absorber packs before sealing / putting on lid. We pack dried rice and dried beans the same way. Keep the jars out of the light, away from moisture, away from extreme temperatures and they will last on and on.

    You don't have to pull a vacuum on this stuff. As a matter of fact, when he oxygen absorbers take out the O2, this leaves the carbon dioxide. Carbon dioxide kills any insects and any insect eggs can't hatch. If there is no water, fungi can't grow. Nitrogen which composes most of our atmosphere and thus most of what we breathe in, is an inert gas -- were it all you breathed in, you'd be dead in no time ... insects also.

    Oxidation causes aging, thus poor flavor. This is another reason for the oxygen absorber packs -- the retaining of flavor.

    Actually, bags of rice will keep on and on even if all you do is keep away the moisture. Sugar also simply keeps on its own. Throw Kool-Aid packs in jars w/O2-absorbers. Flavored water keeps up people's spirits -- especially the kids.

    We pack bullion cubes, dried peppers, and other types of flavorings.

    Keep your dry goods dry.
     
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