These U.s. Industries Can't Work Without Illegal Immigrants

Discussion in 'News, Current Events, and Politics' started by Keith H., Oct 9, 2019.

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  1. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    Given the wall going up & the dislike of Mexicans crossing the border, what are your views on this?


    These U.S. industries can't work without illegal immigrants.

    The nation's attention is once again focused on the southern border, where President Trump claims the U.S. is facing a "crisis" over illegal immigration.

    Sometimes forgotten as the nation focuses attention on migrants currently trying to cross the border is that millions of undocumented immigrants continue to live in the U.S. – and most of them work.
    And in fact, these workers play vital roles in the U.S. economy, erecting American buildings, picking American apples and grapes, and taking care of American babies. Oh, and paying American taxes.

    My work as the director of the Cornell Farmworker Program involves meeting with undocumented workers in New York, and the farmers who employ them. Here's a snapshot of who they are, where they work – and why Americans should care about them.
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/illegal-immigrants-us-jobs-economy-farm-workers-taxes/
    Keith.
     
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  2. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    keith,
    Once they cut off the welfare for healthy folks, there will be plenty of workers. Hunger is a great motivator.
     
  3. randyt

    randyt Master Survivalist
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    My brother is fluent in Spanish so fluent he can determine what region the person is from. He became a hospital and court interpreter. He spent a number of years interpreting. So after spending many years in the court and medical field he is of the opinion that all this illegal immigration is very bad for the USA.
     
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  4. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    I am in favor of making it mandatory by U.S. law to pay non - citizens more for their wages than citizens . The non - citizens should be happy , but the employers would quickly in most cases seek citizens to fill those job slots because they could pay them less . To be honest I have seen some very hard working non - citizens and anyone working that hard deserves to be paid more .
     
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  5. Snyper

    Snyper Master Survivalist
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    Sure we can.
    Those jobs can be done by Americans and legal immigrants.
    Don't fall for the anti-Trump media BS.
     
  6. Morgan101

    Morgan101 Master Survivalist
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    Keith: The Southern border of the U.S has been a hot topic for a long time. I seriously doubt that any U.S. industry can't survive without illegal immigrants. There are industries that are labor intensive. They use, and I do mean use in every sense of the word, illegal immigrants for CHEAP labor. As long as the cheap labor exists they will use it.

    I don't know if you could get a true, unbiased report on the economic impact of illegal immigration. Yes, some of them work. Yes, they pay some taxes. They also send a large portion of their earnings back to families who are still living in the impoverished nations they came from. They also receive billions in welfare, and educational benefits. Are they a cost or are they a benefit? You can argue the topic like Religion, and you will never get a straight answer.

    IMHO they do far more harm than good, and the border should be secured. What is the law in Australia? Do you let any boatload of people from anywhere enter the country, stay there, work, collect benefits? I don't mean to be contentious or argumentative. I am curious. How does Australia handle immigration?
     
  7. Sonofliberty

    Sonofliberty Master Survivalist
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    They are leeches sucking the economic life from us. We need to do a second operation wetback.
     
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  8. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    A great motivator, I would imagine it would motivate a lot of people to a life of crime!
    Keith.
     
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  9. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    Many immigrants have settled in Australia, the English were the first. We have a large number of immigrants in Australia, always have had.
    Keith.
     
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  10. Morgan101

    Morgan101 Master Survivalist
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    I understand that. First founded by the Dutch, and later by the English who used it as a penal colony. Is that right? What is the policy today? Do you have open borders where anybody who arrives can stay? Do they receive government assistance? Does the government mandate that you teach their language in schools? Is there any estimate of how many illegal aliens are in the country?
     
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  11. randyt

    randyt Master Survivalist
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    can we clarify the difference between a immigrant and a illegal immigrant? is there a difference?

    a world without borders
     
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  12. Sonofliberty

    Sonofliberty Master Survivalist
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    If they are on welfare, they are already stealing from us. He who will not work will steal. That is a truth I learned long ago.
     
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  13. Sonofliberty

    Sonofliberty Master Survivalist
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    I am just fine with immigrants who come through the front door planning to be non-hyphenated Americans. If they plan to come here and assimilate while contributing, it's all good.
     
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  14. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    That is correct, it was first called New Holland, then later Australia.
    Today immigrants have to apply to come to Australia. Some do arrive illegally, some of these have been granted citizenship, others have been given a visa for a limited time, other have been deported. Criminals get to stay, good families are usually deported. There is I believe some allowances for keeping people who's lives would be in danger if they were returned to their own country, but this is not always the case.
    Immigrants do receive government assistance, there are also groups of Australians in towns that help these immigrants get their feet on the ground, some place to stay & find them work. No they do not have to learn the English language, but obviously this is a great help in finding work so many do learn the language.

    Historically, more people immigrate to, than emigrate from, Australia. At 30 June 2016, 28.5% of the estimated resident population (ERP) was born overseas (6.9 million persons). This was an increase from 30 June 2015, when 28.2% of the population was born overseas (6.7 million persons).

    As of 30 June 2010, DIAC estimated that the number of visa overstayers in Australia was around 53,900, or 0.2 per cent of the Australian population.

    How many immigrants are allowed in Australia each year?
    The number of refugees and humanitarian entrants Australia accepts has varied in recent years. As of 2015-2016, Australia accepted 17,555 refugees in total.
    https://www.ssi.org.au/faqs/refugee-faqs/141-how-many-refugees-does-australia-settle-each-year
     
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  15. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    We indeed do need the Hispanic workers. They are incredibly good workers. What we don't need is more murderers, more lazy people on welfare, more drug dealers, more terrorists or even the squat and drop an American citizen women that only come here to drop a baby at our expense that can then return as a citizen later.

    The first step is to close the borders. I need people that come to my place to take care of my yard and that come into my house to work for me. Does that mean that I should have to take my gate off the fence and the door off my house so that ANYONE can just walk in???

    What we need to do is make it easier for non-criminal legal workers to enter and work here. They should be paid at least the minimum going wage for that occupation. It would indeed slightly raise the cost of some things but not much. that cost would be offset though by reduced crime and fewer useless people on welfare and causing problems. We also need to do away with welfare as it is now. Don't give them money EVER. give them a job, free daycare for their children and food commodities. If they are qualified and work on the Government-sponsored jobs for a year offer them training in some sort of job skill that will allow them to make more money.

    Throwing open your doors to anyone is STUPID. If you don't believe that you need to try it on your own home. Leave your front door open every day when you go to work for a while...
     
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  16. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    They still resort to crime, just don't have to work between their crime operations. As for criminals, 3 strikes and eliminated them will drop the crime rate, at least for repeat offenders.
     
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  17. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    In the U.S. and probably the same everywhere , the areas receiving the most free government giveaways is the same areas with the most crime . Free giveaways seem to be leading to more crime or at least are linked .
     
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  18. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    All immigration must be stopped!!! I don't care how hard working they are, this nation will not need them or want them, as automation removes the non-skilled jobs. Cut off all forms of welfare and assistance to all illegal immigrants. Deport the legal immigrants that go on welfare. Remove all healthy people from welfare assistance. Think back to all the jobs already eliminated and it will only accelerate in the future. In 5-10 years, and then no more truck drivers, cab drivers, warehouse people and so many more. Many members claim population is the problem, well add massive unemployment and what happens then? The unemployed will have nothing better to do than sit at home and make more babies, which will increase their welfare checks. Every country needs to close their borders and deal as best they can with their own citizens. The future will be for the skilled trades people and management.
     
  19. Morgan101

    Morgan101 Master Survivalist
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    Thank you. That answers some questions. In 2016 the U.S. accepted 1.1 million immigrants. The immigrant population is roughly 43 million or 13.2% of the population. Where you have 53,900 visa overstayers we have several million. The estimates of illegal aliens in the U.S. is in the 13 million range, and they are NOT all nice people. You may not have heard all of the heinous crimes that have been committed by illegal aliens, and our liberal left still protects them. It is shocking. Our borders need to be secured. We should know who we are allowing into the country, and for what reason.
     
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  20. arctic bill

    arctic bill Master Survivalist
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    In my area the residents will not work picking strawberries. the government brings in mexicans to pick them. but they do not stay, they are only here for a month or two during the harvest.
     
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  21. Morgan101

    Morgan101 Master Survivalist
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    I am curious. Are these residents unemployed? If so therein lies the problem. Why would you work when you can sit on your ass, and do nothing to get the same amount of money? Cut off the welfare, or make it workfare. You want a check? Then you will pick strawberries.
     
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  22. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    Are any of the residents in your area getting government assistance? Bet some are and if it was removed, they would have an incentive to pick the crops. As I stated, hunger is a great motivator. Never met anybody willing to starve to death verses picking crops.
     
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  23. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    My question is WHY should good hardworking people be harmed three times before you eliminate a criminal from society. Most of these people have endlessly long past problems with the law where it has been pled down to a misdemeanor. I think that crime ESPECIALLY violent crime needs to be strongly responded to. Any crime that involves violence or a gun should result in them being removed from society for 25 years or more depending on the amount of violence. A second offense should be life without the possibility of parole.

    A lot of criminals spend years and tears serving one sentence while also committing a chain of crimes. They make parole and go out and are back within a few months on a parole violation. Lots of times that means that somebody got robbed or whatever they seldom bother to prosecute them on these because it is easier and cheaper to just send them back to prison on the states Nickle rather than the county and city putting them up in the Country jail for a year or two and paying for another prosecution.

    A lot of them have spent so much of their life in prison that they sort of look at those short trips out of prison a lot like a vacation. My wife had one tell her that if it wasn't for getting caught and sent back he would probably die from an overdose or get killed doing something to get the money to pay for those drugs. The thing he did to get money was to sell drugs and rob people. He was an addict. Even after being drug-free for several years he would go right back to it every time they paroled him. WHY, don't the silly people that work and don't make a living robbing people have the right to not be robbed over and over???

    GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!
     
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  24. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    African American neighborhoods are being taken over by Hispanics. Hispanic gangs target African Americans as those they wish to eliminate / push out.

    https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-...california-are-terrorizing-and-killing-blacks

    What developed nation has one of largest the land to human occupancy ratios (lowest number of people per square mile), PLUS a downright huge land mass? Australia! I cannot think of a better place to send displaced Hispanics and all of the other "oppressed people" on planet Earth. I think that Australia should at the very least take in ten million Hispanics. If they will not do so, then this proves that they have cold, cold hearts. I can hear the Spanish babies crying. Who will comfort them!!!
     
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  25. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    What value does is a prisoner incarcerated for life? Criminals that have been arrested and convicted for misdemeanor or felony three times, need to be liquidated. They are career criminals and a danger to law abiding folks.
     
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  26. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    I basically agree if the crimes are of a violent nature. But I'm not sure that I could go for executing someone for say a couple of felony possession of marijuana and a felony shoplifting conviction.

    The reason even murder isn't often prosecuted with a death penalty on the table is that it cost several million dollars to do that. If the country doesn't hire a good high priced attorney to defend them and pay for it all the way through the appeals and possible second trials they are wasting their time. It will get overturned in appeals for lack of competent legal representation.

    Hiring some guy that has never defended a capital murder case at trial or someone that has never won a capital murder trial at least to the point of the jury returning a lesser charge, that isn't good enough The days of giving them a fresh out of school public defender and basically legally lynching them are over.
     
  27. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    TEX,, if you have every spent any time in a local lock up. then you would understand that if somebody did not learn from their first two visit, then they are not going to learn at all. They would have chosen to end their lives, not the public. A clear understanding would be taught in grade school. Actions have consequences. Failure to learn from you actions will have a terminal effect. Bet the crime rate drops. In the past public flogging and public hanging were outstanding ways to teach people about accountability.
     
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  28. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    I don't think the UK can afford to stop immigration even when we leave the EU, especially in Agriculture, seasonal workers will always be needed, British people do not want to work on farms, the pay is not that good and they can earn better money sitting in front of a computer, so immigrant workers will always be needed.
     
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  29. Morgan101

    Morgan101 Master Survivalist
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    I know I may be splitting hairs here, but "immigrant" workers or "Hispanic " workers aren't needed. WORKERS are needed. Put the prison inmates to work harvesting crops. Let kids out of school for a period of time to harvest crops. There are many ways the labor could be incentivized.

    Isn't that how France and Germany ended up with such horrendous Muslim problems? Importing foreign labor to do menial tasks? I thought I saw numbers where the French had a declining work force, and needed labor in general. Is that true? Now they have an entire portion of the population that refuses to assimilate.
     
  30. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    many immigrants come from countries with a completely different sort of culture to the western countries they have moved to, they then want to have the culture they left behind in their new country, oil and water do not mix.
     
  31. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    It is basic economics " supply and demand " . When labor is in demand enough , wages will increase to fulfill the needed demand . At least that is how the U.S. economic system is set up and is probably one of the few if not the only countries whose economy is thriving as the rest of the nations on the planet are collapsing . Communism and socialism is failing many nations that the people signed up for getting free stuff . They sold their freedom and their family's freedom as well as their descendance freedom to get free stuff . The free stuff ride will last only so long . Then it is time to pay the piper . The U.S. does use cheap migrant labor as well as products produced by outright slave labor such as that in Pakistan . I have read accounts where in Pakistan , bought children were chained up and forced to weave rugs for export . It really is not necessary for the U.S. to buy products made by slaves or to take advantage of an impoverished migrant worker . True the consumer in the U.S. may pay more for a particular product , but the U.S. citizen will be only looking at either adapting to a different product or paying a little more .
     
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  32. poltiregist

    poltiregist Master Survivalist
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    Just a couple of amusing examples of the stupidity of some people . When the U.S. elected its first black president and now that election is in question now that the democrat corruption and election rigging has been revealed . ----- There was a black woman dancing around at the gas station proclaiming now that we have a black president I don't have to pay for gasoline anymore . ----- There was a black guy that owed the bank a house mortgage . He took his paper work of his mortgage to the bank slapped it down on the counter and joyously declared " now that we have a black president I don't have to pay on my house anymore . This kind of stupidity is why some people will embrace communism or socialism to get free stuff . Some people have absolutely no concept of economics .
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2019
  33. Alaskajohn

    Alaskajohn Master Survivalist
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    Keith, you live on a big island a long distance from other populated lands. You have your wall naturally.
     
  34. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Historically here in America, Hispanics (plus desparately poor Europeans) have been brought in to break up unions and keep wages down.

    Now Hispanics are being brought in to soak-up social service monies. Decades ago, communists wanted hoards of welfare-dependent people so that "the system" would collapse and a violent communist revolution could be commenced. Everyone knows that gun control is directed at law-abiding citizens. The availability of firearms and explosives from world black markets is essentially unlimited. Illegal firearms will always be made available to communist revolutionaries. Warehouses in Central America are packed to the gills with left-over military weapons from their perpetual civil wars in that region.

    This has been true for a long time now. Here's an article from a decade ago. Think things are better down in Central America nowadays? If you do, then I have some "waterfront" property in Florida you may be interested in purchasing.

    https://nacla.org/article/small-arms-trade-latin-america

    "March 6, 2008

    "Small arms and gun violence present the most dramatic threat to public safety in Latin America and the Caribbean. After decades of uncontrolled proliferation, at least 45 million to 80 million small arms and light weapons—that is, weapons operated by an individual or small group, including handguns, assault rifles, grenades, grenade launchers, and even man portable surface to air missiles—are circulating throughout the region.1 Gunshots kill between 73,000 and 90,000 people each year in Latin America, and guns are the leading cause of death among Latin Americans between the ages of 15 and 44, according to World Health Organization estimates."

    Words with emphasis were marked by me. Ban and confiscate all semi-autos in America, then the result will be a steady and heavy supply line of FULLY-automatic rifles plus grenades from Central America. The pipeline will lead straight to the gangs and other monsters now dug-in royally here in the USA.

    Anyone unable to understand this is too stupid to breathe.
     
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  35. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    Beto=Confiscate. Biden=confiscate OR register them. Now how is any registry going to stop gun violence? Answer, it is not but it sure will make it a lot easier to come and forcibly take them. The Democrats are lying to the Libercrits and too many are too stupid to see or understand it.
     
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  36. LastOutlaw

    LastOutlaw Master Survivalist
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    Keith, Imagine Australia right up against Somalia, no water between. then just past Somalia is Syria, Lebanon, Turkey and a few more. Every day thousands march across Somalia and just walk right in to Australia and start taking free government handouts that you are paying for with your taxes. Also millions of Somalians are already in Australia and none of these people who came there have filed any papers to be there legally. Also ever day more and more Somalians are pouring into Australia. They just march in and take jobs and file for free benefits that you pay for each year. They do not pay taxes because there is no documentation on them that makes them pay. They are invisible to the revenue service. They get to keep every penny they earn and also get more money free from the Australian tax payer. They are plugging up the emergency rooms for their medical treatment and your son or daughter has to wait many hours to be seen by a Dr. because of them. Their kids are in your schools causing higher taxes to build more and more schools to teach them. Your child gets a poorer education because teachers have to take time to teach hundreds of kids that are here illegally. Time that could and should be spent teaching your child. Also every child that is born to them while in Australia automatically becomes a citizen and is a means for more and more to come in easily to get citizenship or a reason that their parents can not be deported.

    I estimate there are over 15 million illegals in the US right now and I would be willing to bet that the number is much higher... maybe double.

    My son used to work in the construction field in America. He used to frame houses and he also worked as a trim carpenter. He now builds mobile homes because the home construction field has been taken over by illegals. NOT MIGRANTS...ILLEGAL ALIENS. There is a HUGE DIFFERENCE.
     
  37. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning all,

    There is something being neglected.

    Those "illegal" immigrants who work here pay into the Social Security FICA tax program. Since they are illegal, they use fake Social Security numbers. The employer deducts the tax from their paychecks and "sends it in".

    This additional money goes to support the current Social Security program. There's a name for the individual's noncollectable contribution but forgot it.

    Although the Social Security program is pending insolvency soon (various dates depending on presumptions), the illegals help a little with their small share of FICA taxes.

    ...

    Let me close with good news. Social Security is not the worst program we must worry about. Medicare is.
     
  38. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    "Unknown" people are paid in cash.

    Even state congressmen are paid in cash. My dad wrote checks to his lot who then buried the money in "legal companies" whose cash filled envelopes and was then handed to state congressmen standing on the steps of a state's statehouse. As a child I knew people from other countries who worked for the proverbial "mob". Being a child I saw them as buddies with whom my father worked. There exists another economy. My dad and his brothers were a part of it. Trust me on this one, there are two economies.

    When attending university, I was paid in cash. When a teenager, I had to sell my father's business and the gambling machines that provided its heart. My father died abruptly and he was possessed of little insurance. I was handed a stack of one hundred dollar bills by a man an uncle had me meet. A goodly part of that stack went to pay for the unimaginably beautiful oak casket I bought for Dad. My dad's will was that I should attend university. His fellows knew that and it was made so.

    From one of my dad's work "family", I was taught how my home-town actually worked. I was an old man in my youth. Expert marksman well before age 18. Father at 23. By age 30, father of three and working for my second international company.

    I am centuries old now it would appear.

    Don't buy into the illusion.

    Freedom is being able to put your enemies into the dirt.

    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
    -- Thomas Jefferson
     
  39. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning Old Geezer,

    I was referring to those employees who are not paid in cash. That is those on W2/W4 forms in companies that are inspected and audited as a matter of routine.

    Had heard these on/off book employees contribute ~ 10+% to the Social Security account.
     
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  40. LastOutlaw

    LastOutlaw Master Survivalist
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    I'm doubtful that there is such a thing except maybe those who are on fake identification and fake SS numbers. I would guess that there are such types but they would not pay taxes and would not contribute in any other form except for having SS taken from their pay on an automatic basis as they scam the system by faking legal residency. They most likely scam the system many other ways such as not paying taxes and filing for every free subsidy that they can such as welfare, obamacare, food stamps. housing etc. The small bit that they give up in the way of social security is outweighed by the many other things they get for free and not paying income tax. I would guess they all file zero deductions on their w2.
     
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  41. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good afternoon Last Outlaw,

    There is a term for what I wrote about this morning. It was in a GAO report investigating this.

    Yes, the SS deductions are taken from their fake name/fake SS number as per the fake W-2 form and will never be claimed by the actual illegal worker. This money goes to the SS trust fund and is instantly disbursed out to support the fragile SS budget.

    I am sure all the other programs that can be maxed out, even if illegal, are used to the hilt.

    Now, do note that SS is Federal and the other programs eg Medicaid, are partly state funded. The - key major - program is Social Security, the "third rail of American politics".
     
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  42. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    Here is how it works --- Fake SS number and then file exempt of the taxes. OR if employer is willing they get a IRS company tax number and write off everything under the sun. They end up paying minimal taxes. Their kids cost the same or more to educate. No matter how you cut it, they are a net loss to the American people.
     
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  43. Morgan101

    Morgan101 Master Survivalist
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    This is by far the best argument I have ever seen against Gun Registration. Definitely the 800 pound gorilla in the room. Who do you think it going to pay for this, and how much will it cost?

     
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  44. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    I never kept track. With how many SS numbers did Barry Soetoro finally end up?

    Gaining the presidency wasn't much -- Valerie Jarrett's handlers arranged for her puppet to get into office. What is actually shocking is that he held a position of lecturer at a law school without having ever published. Professors and other lecturers were deeply angered / sickened by Barry's having any position there whatsoever.
     
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