Tracer Ammo And Bore Cleaning Question.

Discussion in 'Guns' started by Sourdough, Oct 30, 2019.

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  1. Sourdough

    Sourdough "eleutheromaniac"
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    What special attention "IF ANY" is suggested after firing Tracer projectiles.

    Please don't "Guess" or forward Uninformed opinions.....I am looking for rock solid information. Dows the bore require special cleaning after firing Tracer Projectiles, and if so what is that special attention.
     
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  2. Sourdough

    Sourdough "eleutheromaniac"
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    Using: American Eagle Tracer XM856
     
  3. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    I found the following link for you, Sourdough. Tracer compounds begin burning after they've left the barrel. You want that because you don't want the tracers to tell the enemy where you are. That having been said, I've had a marketer of recently manufactured tracer and "dragon's breath" type ammo brag that what he was selling touched-off immediately so that the person firing the ammo would see the trajectory from the get-go. The instant-burn copy of the original "dragon's breath" he billed as "great for looters". How to clean for the immediate burn stuff, who knows?!

    Older ammo, ones with mercuric primers, you gotta use a water-soluble cleaner, not regular bore cleaner. There was some East European (Czech?) ammo out there -- I think it was 8mm -- that used hydrophilic powder, thus would corrode your rifle barrel royal. Must use water-soluble cleaner on that for sure. Once upon a time you could get M1 Garand bore cleaner. Old .303 Brit ammo is still around. This Brit ammo was loaded with fulminate of mercury primers. The mercury can over decades (vaporizes) cause the brass to soften and when fired leaves a corrosive residue in your rifle's bore. Gotta use water soluble cleaner for that stuff. Back in the day, guys used Spic-n-Span and a pan of water. Cotton cloth on the cleaning rod's tip, run rod through bore out muzzle, get patch wet with the S'n'Span mix in pot, pull back to chamber (keep this stuff out of the action), push out, repeat. Under war conditions, these rifles were used rain or shine -- they got utterly filthy. Witness war surplus rifles; most were rusted to hell and back. The really bad ones were scrapped-out; metal parts melted for other industrial uses.

    https://answers.yahoo.com/question/...oE7KvFIGbFkft0-rq2P9qtzHF1_RIcSTIKHOmTavHaUfm

    "I am a Federal Firearms Licenced Manufacturer with an Special Occupational Tax Stamp (basically I can make surpressors and machine guns) and have been around firearms 30 years now. I went to Naval Gunnery School and have worked for a major firearms manufacturer (KAC). I have also fired tracing rounds (in the hundreds of thousands) of many different types (i.e. infrared and foreign military).

    "Why did I bring up this statement of credibility? Because I'm about to completely dispell some "misunderstandings" posted here about your tracer rounds.

    "I like the first post: It is entirely true that tracer rounds do not begin the burn until after they leave the barrel, typically between 25 and 75 yards. Because of this fact the only residue you receive in you barrel is gunpower and primer. With that said you should pay more attention to the type of primer you load into the weapon than the type of ammunition. Also, alot of countries put sealants on the projectiles such as tar or petroliuem which is more damaging than anything that tracer round is going to emit inside that barrel.

    "You will not hurt your barrel by sending a tracer round though it at all. Well, anymore than a regular round. The projectile does "grind in" carbon from preceding rounds, but you should know that the carbon that is present is much less dense than the steel the barrel is made of and therefore the reprocussions of such actions are minimal. This goes for ANY round. A tracer round is no more damaging than any other normal round.

    "Tracer rounds are illegal in some states. Which states I will not begin to list for fear of omitting one or two and therefore misleading you. I will say, that in Florida the tracer ammunition is illegal to fire, not own. So, yes and no to the legislative standing of ownership of tracer ammunition.

    "Just as a Post Script, I want to add that the year/type of the tracer ammunition does have bearing on the preceding statements. Older tracer ammunition (before the Korean war, and throughout) does have a tendency to ignite inside the barrel, but still typically has little impact."
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2019
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  4. Sourdough

    Sourdough "eleutheromaniac"
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    Thank You................Does lubricant in any way inhibit proper ignition of tracer bullets.......???
     
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  5. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Never use penetrating oil on ANY ammunition. Effective penetrating oil penetrates. Only ammo with lacquered primers and bullets may(?) protect the ammo from penetrating compounds, still ... . Only use regular lubricants on your firearms, then wipe off the oil. Oil grabs gunk from the environment and sticks this gunk to the workings of your weapon. Keep this in mind. Teflon, et. al., impregnate into the pores of metal and provide lubrication. When in freezing / arctic conditions use lubricants designed for such. Oil turns into thick grease in horribly cold environments and WILL seize-up your weapon's action.

    Think => "Oil turns into lard."

    Read a story about LEO heading to range. Fires-up ammo loaded in his revolver. Oops!, no he didn't! Not one round of six would fire. The penetrating oil he had used on his service weapon had gotten into their primers and disabled them. Every single round was turned into a dud.

    I'm a Birchwood Casey fan. Still, one lubricates a weapon, then gets the excess oil off of the weapon.

    Never use copper-zapping bore cleaners on nickel-plated firearms. At factory, first the weapon's bare steel is plated with copper, then the metal is plated with nickel. Fouling cleaners will get under the nickle and destroy the copper = off comes the nickle.
     
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  6. watcherchris

    watcherchris Legendary Survivalist
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    Have tracer rounds ...AP rounds too. Have no plans to shoot this stuff unless needed.

    I don't have any particular use for tracer but someone gave me the stuff. Bright lights never impressed me.


    AP I have only for special Heavy Duty uses and no plans to regularly use this stuff. It is olde manufacture and may go back to the days of the older primers...thus special cleaning may be needed...as aptly outlined by Olde Geezer....
    I knew when I bought it ..it was the right stuff because I hit the bullet ends with a magnet...telling me it was good to go.
    This stuff is in Garand end bloc clips....but I can use it in any of my numerous 30.06 rifles

    Also they do not allow tracer or AP rounds at our gun club and I agree with them..It is hard on the backstops and facilities.

    Nonetheless...no plans to shoot this stuff....unless wildlife runs amok.....and it is specially needed.

    Olde Geezers post above on special cleaning ... has been noted by me.


    Thanks,
    Watcherchris
    Not an Ishmaelite.
     
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  7. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Legendary Survivalist
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    Tracer ammo will let you know the arc of your weapon's capability. Knew guys who fired it in-country to get an idea of what their M-14s (no not m16s) would do. Tropics, wet, not going to start any fires.

    Tracer ammo will age-out as far as the tracer compound goes. Simply doesn't last forever. The ammo may yet remain quite deadly ... just aren't gonna see it go downrange.
     
  8. Sourdough

    Sourdough "eleutheromaniac"
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    Well...........tipping over seven wolves out of a pack of seventeen, and getting near $3,000.00 for the pelts, can make tracers handy. Especially on critters that are hauling'ass to escape.
    People on forums think tend to think of firearms in different terms then those of us who make a living harvesting from natures local bounty.
     
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  9. Dalewick

    Dalewick Master Survivalist
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    In the army we had no special cleaning procedures for tracers of any caliber. If you are using military grade ammo, I would recommend a good cleaning after every day you fire that weapon. Military grade ammo has notoriously dirty powder that can be very corrosive. Bore cleaner, patches and CLP. Always worked for me. Still does.

    Dale

    PS - Sourdough, If you don't mind, who are you selling wolves to at $3000.00 a hide? That's way above any auction prices I've been seeing and I love me a generous buyer/taxidermist.
     
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  10. Sourdough

    Sourdough "eleutheromaniac"
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    That is a rough value for "Seven" nice/quality hides. Depends on "Color", Size, Quality.

    Last year one guy (alone) got ten wolves out of one pack, in about 10 or 12 seconds with a AR-15. That requires some serious shooting skill. Because they are hauling'ass and bounding real high. The good thing is they stay in a line. If they scattered you would not get very many.
     
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  11. Dalewick

    Dalewick Master Survivalist
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    LOL! I figured it was for several hides, but a guy can hope can't he. LOL! If you have wolves, how is your fox population doing? I had friends that trapped AK years ago and I have always wanted to, but life never cooperated. You are blessed to live in Gods country.
    How's the snow looking so far this season? I don't remember you mentioning it, but did you get your winter's meat yet?
    Sorry for being so nosey. I just love where you live. Thanks SD.

    Dale
     
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  12. Sourdough

    Sourdough "eleutheromaniac"
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    Strange thing but I see a fox here about every five or six years. Red and Cross fox has been close here seems like forever. Lots of Coyotes (which have near zero pelt value) and a fair amount of wolves, but they seem to swing by here roughly every two weeks, and generally only two or three on a pack, here five would be a large'ish pack.

    Here on the Kenai Peninsula we don't get much snow. Fifty years ago we got snow and cold, real winter, now we get rain and temps. in the upper twenties to upper thirties all winter.
     
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  13. Dalewick

    Dalewick Master Survivalist
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    Hate to hear that about the coyotes. I like them in the Rockies but they have moved into way to many places. I'm surprised your wolves tolerate them. Most places I've worked that had both, the wolves keep there populations very low. Are your wolves in balance with there primary prey species? Do your wolves eat beaver primarily or go for deer or moose?

    How is your martin and mink populations?

    Dale
     
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  14. Sourdough

    Sourdough "eleutheromaniac"
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    A lot of Martin here. I don't know about Mink here. The wolf population goes up and down with the Caribou population, that is their primary feed, they do pull down moose when the snow is deep. I have never know of them impacting the beaver population. But they had fun eating my Turkeys and Geese. I finally gave up there was no way to win that contest. One interesting thing.....is they did not eat them here in the yard, they would carry them a little over a 1/4 mile to the exact same spot to eat them. I found that very interesting. It was mostly a single all black wolf, that was a mutant, had very-very short legs. It would come about every three days for only one bird.
     
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  15. Dalewick

    Dalewick Master Survivalist
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    With the current prices on martin, that has to make you happy. Didn't know if you had many caribou in your area or not. I worked in Minnesota years ago and the wolves preyed heavily on the beaver population there. I've talked to other trappers in Ontario that have the same experience on there lines.

    I don't have a lot of experience with wolves, but I do with coyotes. I've seen that killing and feeding pattern with coyotes several times but had never heard of it with wolves. Have you heard of similar behavior in other wolves up in AK?

    Thanks,
    Dale
     
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