Ways To Prepare For an Economic Collapse?

Discussion in 'General Q&A' started by John Snort, May 30, 2016.

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  1. John Snort

    John Snort Well-Known Member
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    Venezuela's economic collapse and dealing with everything that has followed [ a spike in violent crimes, food shortages, etc] could happen anywhere in the world at any time.

    As it's impossible to live in any city at such times, and you can be murdered if you try to live on someone's land I think one should buy land away from the city so in case of an economic collapse, you'll have a place to flee to. Depending on how big you piece of land is you could live off it, assuming no one will come stealing the crops you grow or animals you'll rear [for food].

    How are you preparing for an economic crisis?
     
  2. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    haven't we already done "economic" crisis?
     
  3. John Snort

    John Snort Well-Known Member
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    my bad. it's the land thing I've been hearing too much of lately. Buy land, buy land, buy land.
     
  4. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    I wish!! I've been trying to buy my own land for years but its so expensive down here its unbelievable the prices they ask for even the most basic "scrub" land.
     
  5. Arkane

    Arkane Master Survivalist
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    Just selling my block of land! 1,254acres under contract for $220k as of yesterday

    It is not so much buy land but to have a secure location to live!
    Do not be beholding to any bank etc for any debt!

    Debt free is the go!
    Here when .gov gets a bit tight for cash they bump up land rates rego, water, sewerage etc!
    The less of these you need to pay the better!
     
  6. cluckeyo

    cluckeyo Well-Known Member
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    Having your own land and preparing a place that will sustain you in times of hardship seems to be the best idea I know of. Do you have a house that is paid for? And land for a garden, a fish pond, a place to hunt deer, a milk cow or some goats, chickens or other poultry. Room for the kids to come home and bunk in (sort of an emergency hub). A way to gather rain water. An alternative energy source. These are the things we are working on. So that in the event of economic collapse, there would be very little need to even go to town. We would be fully sustainable.
     
  7. Keith H.

    Keith H. Moderator Staff Member
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    We have owned our own land for about 40 years now & live on it off grid & off all services. Definitely the way to go if you can afford it. At the same time you need to lay in plans to protect what you have, which we have done. I am not saying it will be easy, it won't be, but it is the best option.
    Keith.
    [​IMG]
     
  8. Corzhens

    Corzhens Master Survivalist
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    That's also my idea - buy land away from the crowded city, that is if we have the money. It is not easy to prepare for a country's financial collapse because you are also affected somehow. Like me, I am a bank employee so definitely I would have inside information but maybe I would feel the pinch when our company would slash our salaries and suspend our benefits. But anyway, for the sake of this thread, let's assume that I have the info just ahead of everyone.

    I would resign from my job and use my retirement pay to buy at least a hectare of land in the far faraway where the population is scarce. It doesn't matter if there are no roads, even no water, we can probably survive with peace of mind. And if we have the funds, we can always hire the native folks for the manual labor needed to fix the place. How about digging a well, much better an artesian well with a hand pump? And for the sustenance, chickens and goats would be the first on the list. Next are the crops like corn which is easier to grow than rice, cassava and other root crops plus small banana that fruits within 6 months of planting. Not to forget the fruits particularly the berries which fruits earlier than big trees. And lastly, the shelter that would have an ample protection like warning device (not electronic) similar to what the olden ninja install in their vicinity. And how about 2 big ferocious dogs?
     
  9. glreese

    glreese Member
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    The most important thing you can do is prepare yourself to become self-sufficient. You must learn how to grow your own food. Then you can feed your family even if you can't buy food. You need to stock up on food now so that you can have some later. You need to learn how to hunt and trap. You should also make sure you have plenty of fishing supplies so you can use that as a way to feed yourself and whoever else you are in charge of taking care of. Also another important thing to do is prepare drinkable water. If you can't pay the water bill, or buy bottles of water, you will need a safe way to get clean drinking water.
     
  10. remnant

    remnant Expert Member
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    It is a wonderful idea to buy land away from the city where all sorts of unpredictable things can happen. Choosing an arable area next or proximal to a water source is the best idea. With a good security fence, you need not worry too much about intruders. I would then concentrate on drought resistant crops which are available all year round. The best thing here is that you would have peace of mind since land never depreciates, it always appreciates in value.
     
  11. Lisa Davis

    Lisa Davis Active Member
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    Honestly, I don't think you need more than an acre or two if you're just growing food for your family and to have a few animals. There are plenty of factors though. First, the size of your family comes into question. Feeding two people takes a lot less than feeding five people. Your climate is also a consideration. If you live somewhere that doesn't get a lot of cold weather, you will have a longer growing season, while places that have longer winters will have shorter crop seasons. When I think about how many gardens we had growing up plus the greenhouse, it amazes me that I never realized the sheer amount of food that we grew (and canned for the winter). I suppose you don't think about things like this when you're a kid and don't have a care in the world.
     
  12. 111kg

    111kg New Member
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    At this point I am preparing for this in a slightly different manner: I am building wealth, but most of my profit goes into assets and not in other complex financial instruments. This way, I get to have the life I want, but also have enough resources to survive if the things go south. I mean, in my region, the things are pretty good. Why would I try to manage small resources when I could potentially have a lot more?
     
  13. cluckeyo

    cluckeyo Well-Known Member
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    I am pinching pennies these days, and getting together a stash that will be invested in a number of ways. I have a plan for the present and future, for good times and bad. It doesn't make sense to leave it all in cash, as cash could be worthless some day. I like the idea of a monthly budget for survival preparations. That way we can make serious progress all along the way. But we won't ignore the place we are today.
     
  14. filmjunkie08

    filmjunkie08 Active Member
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    I am doing two things. First I am purchasing extra food or household items to store. To me, food is money. If a collapse happens and prices soar, I will be able to eat. Secondly, I am saving money. Now will money be of use during a collapse? I don't know. We could experience hyper inflation or an economic depression. Either way, I will have food I will not have to purchase and some money that may be of value.
     
  15. rickymuus

    rickymuus New Member
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    I would buy land in a remote place, most likely hilly where I can have advance warning in case of an attack. Weapons and booby traps are a must have in such a situation both for protection and hunting. You will also need supplies on food and medicine so prepping for such an eventuality is necessary.
     
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  16. jmc

    jmc Member
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    Yes, storing gold is an alternative to buying land (at least it is if the economic collapse is limited to one country).

    During a somewhat localised economic collapse, its likely that land in the afflicted country will devalue relative to gold.

    Typically when economies tank, house prices go down while gold prices go up.

    So if you buy gold during the good times, you may be able to afford to buy land when times get bad. Having said that, those with considerable financial resources would be well advised to procure both.

    And even if you can't buy lands, a store of gold might enable you to get a plane ticket out of the country.

    https://johnmccone.com/2019/02/26/gold-the-most-government-proof-asset/
     
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  17. poltiregist

    poltiregist Expert Member
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    Gold has always been accepted in the past as an acceptable trade object . But now days moldable metal and shiney objects or common every day trinkets . The main value gold holds today is simply it's a historical tradition . Silver isn't much better but has some practical value in an industrial world . If there isn't any manufacturing industry , silver will be only a shiney trinket . I suppose someone thinking gold and silver will get them out of a bind after the apocalyptic event must be thinking it really won't be that bad . They may be right nobody knows how bad it will get , Just in case it does get very bad I am putting my investments in survival items not shiney objects .
     
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  18. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    In the past I was opposed to holding precious metals. I am still opposed to it, for me but only due to my advanced years. I just advised my son to start saving actual gold, not certificates. He is young enough that if the SHTF event is a slow burn (VZ) economic collapse, then all his retirement pay could become useless and only having a commodity that actually goes up in value during an economic crisis, would be a life saver, literally . The two types of SHTF events, slow burn and sudden burn are vastly different and should have different response planning. To me, sudden events require immediate action plans be instituted. Slow burn events are going to require very long term plans and may not even require any active / action plans but simply being able to outlast the event. Long term events are going to require long term financial resources that go up in value as things get worse. As long as there is some type of government, then gold will have increasing value. If there is not a recognized formal government, then there is no recognized currency either. So for a sudden events, it is beans and bullets. For a slow burn, it is hunker down and gold. JM2C
     
  19. jmc

    jmc Member
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    Yes if you click on the link to the article, I explain in great detail the fundamental reasons why the value of gold is lasting and not just historical.

    Broadly speak the summarized conclusion for the article is:

    Gold is the best hedge for totalitarianism. Land and survival equipment is the best hedge for anarchy.

    So you need to have both to effectively hedge against all the challenges the future might hold.

    The limitation with land and survival gear (especially homesteading as opposed to hunter gathering) is that it's all quite bulky and difficult to hide and so a totalitarian state could potentially just seize it all.

    The only thing you can keep in the event of totalitarianism is compact items of value. It's true that states have also taken people's gold in the past, but you have a better shot of hiding it compared to a plot of land or a 10 year store of food.


    In the slow burn scenario, the economy limps along but the state seizes all the surplus. The economy is enough to sustain the state but leaves only the barest subsistence for the proles. Under such a scenario, where the state can sustain itself, large seizable assets that preppers store might just get - well - seized.

    Having compact black market assets will be crucial to have any existence above the barest level of subsistence which the state requires to extract your labour in a slow burn scenario.

    Again, I've covered this in more detail in the article.
     
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  20. Morgan101

    Morgan101 Expert Member
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    The question I have about gold or silver is how much? How much do you keep/store/save? Do you measure that in dollar value, maybe purchase price, or do you measure it in ounces? How do you know if you have enough?

    TMT I agree with your advice; keep actual gold, and not certificates. Is gold available in small enough increments that it could be exchanged? I guess you could use jewelry, but the only gold coin I know of is a Krugerand. I don't even know if they still exist, but it was sold as 1 Troy ounce of gold if I remember correctly. At today's prices that would be nearly $1300.00. I never had to barter, but I don't know how anybody is going to make change.

    In what form do you buy it, so that it will be useable in the future?
     
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  21. jmc

    jmc Member
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    I suppose start off with however you balance the probability of totalitarianism vs anarchy, and after that keep all surplus wealth over and above your preparations in gold.

    So if you think there's a 30% of totalitarianism and a 70% chance of plain old collapse, then start off putting 30% of your survival budget into gold and 70% into food (while ensuring you have a solid plan on how to hide the gold in case of seizure)

    If you're lucky enough to have the resources to robustly secure your survival in the case of anarchy and you're completely set up with what you need, I would then plow all the rest of your survival preparations into gold.


    An interesting observation in the natural world is that animals only defend as much territory as they need to secure their own nutritional needs and the nutritional needs of their offspring. The reason for that is simple. Defending resources against invaders is costly and risks injury. If you defend more resources than you need, you attract more invaders for no personal benefit.
     
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  22. Morgan101

    Morgan101 Expert Member
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    JMC: Your logic is sound, but if we use Venezuela as an example ANYTHING of value makes you a target. How will gold be used as a currency without running the risk of being murdered for what is in your hand?
     
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  23. jmc

    jmc Member
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    Social networks of trust (social capital) is power. Money is the life blood that holds networks of trust together.

    Arnold Schwartzeneger wouldn't be very strong without blood. But a pint of blood isn't strong without a body to inhabit.

    Money can build up, hold together, and enhance social capital. But in an environment with marginal or non-existent laws, if you don't possess some relationships of trust, chances are you won't be able to protect your money.


    Gold is less visible than food. So again, it's impossible to hold value without running the risk of becoming a target, but something that's easier to hide improves your odds...

    ...and the alternative is having nothing - which is even worse.

    Also, if you only carry enough gold to pay your bills and hide the rest, the people you deal with might not screw you over (and may even protect you) because they want repeat business.


    But generally, you will need a robust plan to hide your gold as well as the gold itself.
     
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  24. TexDanm

    TexDanm Shadow Dancer
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    The problem that I have with gold is that it is too valuable. In a survival situation, you will be a little like someone going to a garage sale with a pocket full of one hundred dollar bills. Most things at a garage sale are just a few bucks and the people running them probably don't want to make change for that big a bill.

    Imagine that you are hungry and show up at a farm with a 1500dollar gold coin. How many chickens would that coin be worth and even more important how many chicken or food would that farmed be willing to give to you? If you wander around with it trying to find someone that will sell enough to you to make it even close to worth the value of that coin you are more likely to have someone kill you to steal it from you.

    Trade items need to be on par with the things that you will be wanting to trade for. I like silver but in the end, I think that useful things may be a better investment. 22lr bullets could be one of the best investments out there. The same farmer that might turn you away with your gold coin might be happy to trade a chicken or a meal for a few 22 cartridges.
     
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  25. poltiregist

    poltiregist Expert Member
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    Tex that certainly seems like a reasonable line of thought to me .
     
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  26. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    The beans and bullets and the gold are both valid points. Not everybody in VZ is suffering. Those with gold (wealth) have food, shelter and body guards. If you live down with the masses, then having any type of asset paints a target on you. If you live up on the hilltop and can afford (gold conversion rate) the black market protection and supply rate, then you will live reasonably well. As with VZ, those with the wealth, saw where the country was headed and simply took an extended vacation. With enough wealth, you can become a permanent resident of just about any country you might choose to VACATION in. Down with the masses -- Bean & Bullets. On the hilltop, gold.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2019
  27. jmc

    jmc Member
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    The thing is, you don't have to pay for body guards to protect you. You can be a bodyguard for someone else.

    In a survival situation, there is a significant advantage to being under the protection of someone who has the resource to protect you. And I imagine there will be quite a lot of competition between desperate people trying to get a place in those small protected communities.

    However, the people running those communities won't accept those who are a drain on them.

    Being able to bring something to the table like food or gold in addition to useful skills could make the difference between being let in and being turned away.
     
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  28. jmc

    jmc Member
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    All else being equal, the smaller the volume of value you carry, the easier it is to hide.

    This implies that coins are better than bars. And for small purchases silver is better than gold.


    As for exchanging a gold coin for some chicken's you might be suprised how valuable chicken's might become in a life or death situation.


    But I think one of the main things gold will be useful for is to buy entry into a protect community. Those communities will then trade gold for valuable infrastructure, tools and weapons.
     
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  29. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    in an economic collapse surely the problem is lack of money not how to hide it??
     
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  30. jmc

    jmc Member
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  31. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    I think people in VZ would agree to differ.
     
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  32. jmc

    jmc Member
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    Maybe in VZ, there's just a lack of things to buy.
     
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  33. lonewolf

    lonewolf Moderator Staff Member
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    that's what happens in any kind of a collapse, we aren't talking the latest gadget, people will be trying to put food in the bellies.
     
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