What If The End Of The World As We Know It Isn't

Good morning TMT Tactical,

It's morning for me; just got back from an emergency responder meeting and breakfast was served.

When Grandma Jones can't enter the Interstate Highway...some gates are visible along Interstate 64 of eastern Virginia and Interstate 95 in the Northern Virginia Autonomous Oblast area...she will wait and either dehydrate or freeze, depending on the weather. If Grandma displays some bumper stickers or decals on her car deemed "radical", the vehicle's electronics could be made non-functional. Her car radio will be receiving messages from the authorities to comply with the rules involving ......

The Midwest; It's just like the other sections of the nation. About 3 years ago the national grid was tested. Far from perfect, the system is in decent shape. I am NOT saying this is applicable to the entire US population. Critical infrastructure needing grid support has arrangements in place. Nothing is 100% but eg key selected health and public safety facilities are provided for. Every large airport might not be but the flight loads can be handled. Forget the trip to Vegas or Orlando; the key routes are addressed.

It's nearly impossible - impossible; not improbable - to use a firearm when beamed with intense heat waves - and bellowing black smoke. A crowd that appears as a threat will be treated accordingly. Irritants in the black smoke ? I don't know. I don't work in the public safety field.

Grandma Jones just passed away and the kids aren't going to the funeral. The roads are closed and gasoline is rationed ONLY to selected public sector employees and certain private sector emergency responder groups.

It's not the electric grid to worry about ! It's the mass diseases that set in when population segments are stressed out and displaced. Now, the public health delivery system is still stressed to the hilt.

To borrow a phrase Tex Dan recently used; "Draconian measures" are available if and when needed.

 

Good afternoon TMT Tactical,

I try to reply to posed questions - even if busy preparing a condolence card for the late Grandma Jones' kids.

I think the USMC-tested heat producer has a range ~ 300 meters. It is truck mounted or helo mounted.

Actually, during WWII, the Japanese did invade America: Philippines and Wake Island.

It is not correct that many citizens are better armed than the police.

Handling cats is easy. They are mammals, just like dogs and horses. There are poison gases with nerve agents that eliminate the felines, etc.

Ref Danger Zone /"black out zone"; Not sure of your point. It's worth glancing at the quarantine procedures at state-level involving isolating infected blocks of people.

I don't understand the significance of a 1,000 yd range. I believe NYPD just learned about the Creedmoor. So, too, CHIP, Texas Rangers, the Arizona counterparts if not busy helping out at Yuma, and maybe the Federal agencies eg Commodities Futures Trading Cor.....just joking, just joking !!

Isn't the 303 Win cartridge about half the cost of a Creedmore 6.5 ?

Save the difference and pick up a new SOG assisted-blade multi-tool.

 

There are somewhere around a million and a half in the US military. There are 7.7 million free Americans that own between 8 and 140 guns. Those are the SERIOUS gun owners. There are probably 3 or 4 times that many that have two or more guns and No telling how many have at least one gun.

The military is massively outnumbered. I also have a problem believing that all those men are going to turn on the American people at the order of Washington politicians. A lot of those military people are not really all that dangerous. The cooks and mechanics and sailors out in ships aren't available really to use in the US. There are approximately 200,000 infantry ground pounders if you pulled everyone home from around the world. The support staff is many times that number. They shoot for 10% to 15% front line troops in general.

Most cops carry a handgun. They then have a shotgun or a few might even have an AR. They are massively outgunned by the gangs and even a lot of regular people can do better than that. The California police had to raid a local gun store one time to get some REAL firepower to handle some bank robbers that were wearing body armor. Most cops are NOT Swat trained people. I used to work with a lot of cops when I was in the gun business and a lot of the regular patrol cops were barely adequate with their assigned handguns. I have worked on revolvers that had green cased cartridges in the cylinder that I had to remove with a dowel and hammer!

We have the best cops that we will pay for. They are massively underpaid, overworked and stupidly sent out alone to handle things that need two people. You can't watch your own back. There should always be to cops in every car like it used to be. That keeps the criminals from thinking that they can just kick that one cop's butt and get away. It also protects citizens from bad cops. The odds of two bad cops abusing their power is a lot less than one all by himself.

As long as we can stay armed we will be a free people. NOBODY wants to try and force us to fight in our homes. We are bad enough in other places but if we are ever attacked here whether it be by invasion or the Government trying to take our rights the blood will run like a river in the streets.

The actual level of gun ownership in the US is sort of strange. In general, it seems that they want to minimize it to make it seem like there really aren't as many armed people as you would think. They said over and over that 3% of the gun owners own 50% of the guns and that the percentage of Americans that owned guns was under 30%. A little digging explained that figure. They based it on the gun ownership in the state that requires gun registration and admitted that nobody knows how many unregistered guns were out there even in the states that require it much less in places like Texas that has no requirement to notify the government when you get a new gun OR when you sell one.

If I wanted to reach out and nail someone at distance choices would be in order, 308, 30-06, 300 Winchester mag and the 50 BMG. If I am firing from a set place the 50 BMG is the STUFF but hauling it around isn't good. The 308/30-06 are great out to 1000 yards but if I wanted more reach in something that I could carry easily I would move up to the 300 Win. Mag.

Most any of the cartridges that are 25 calibers or more have the reach to do things way out there. A 25-06 jumps to mind as does the 270. The list of 30 cal and up is truly massive. If the gun is right the caliber isn't really a big deciding factor. The old 45-70 was a 1000 yard gun for buffalo hunters.

A regular cop has nothing that can match the reach of even a deer rifle. If the cops tried to force an armed people in a situation where emotions were high they wouldn't last long at all.

 

Good morning TMT Tactical - and Tex Dan M,

Just read both above posts.

We are in basic disagreement.

I do want to bring up something contra to "The issue is logistics". Read the National Incident Management System and the related, always active, National Response Framework. Much change occurring.

 

Over the many years, the military has come up with all sorts of futuristic weapons. Heatwave guns, sound wave guns, laser guns. The thing is that so far very few of them have proven to be very effective in a battlefield. They are usually too cumbersome or too delicate or too easily taken out. I know that the sound wave generator was really big and could be easily put out of business by shooting holes in the diaphragm that was part of the big sound generator. It was then touted for crowd control in more civil disorder situations but so far that hasn't really worked out. Rioters run around the corner and just keep on rioting.

There has been a lot more progress made with the various gasses and such. I suspect that if it was called for that they have a knock outgas that they could use. There is some stuff going on now that has to do with static electricity that would throw the people hit into massive cramps. The thing is that if the federal government ever uses these things on Americans it will break a bond that would never heal.

 

Here's a good movie about a total power black-out all across England. It shows some all-too-real situations. In the movie, you'll see a fellow who is somewhat prepared, however he isn't armed. A lady attempts to get back to her mum. The roads are parking lots. The government has plans and provisions ... that are proven to be a farce. A girl and her brother find themselves in hospital. But there are backup generators, right? Order is maintained, right?

I do not know if this movie has ever been discussed on this website. If it hasn't or if somebody wants to watch it, then the following is a link to the entire movie:

Blackout 2013, British film:


There is a movie utterly different than this survival movie named "The Blackout" and may have even been released the same year, 2013, but the two movies are not the same theme big-time. That's why I put the link above in here. I watched the movie on Netflix.

 

Were a sufficient number of average, i.e. unprepared, people to watch this movie, maybe some among them would have moments of awakening. Some may even act on having been forced to think about something they do not want to think about.

Drama sells movies, true, but when it hits the fan, there is going to be some very serious drama going down. People's fight-or-flight hormones are going to explode. We know that there will occur overt panic, however one doesn't expect crazy until they witness it personally. I've seen crazy. Anything remotely related to rational behavior goes out the window.

The movie made many good points. Here are some realities covered in this movie:

> On what is one going to cook? Even natural gas companies must control pressures and routing with electrical/electronic devices.
> Water pumped by the city and water brought in by emergency agencies (whenever that arrives) can be as contaminated as pond water.
> One may have the means of survival, however if you do not have the ability to drive-back multiple attackers, then you and your family are finished. The coming chaos forces one to have repeating firearms and sufficient ammunition for these firearms.
> Fires are going to be omnipresent. Even accidental fires will greatly increase.
> Medical care will be iffy. Hospitals will be massively overwhelmed.
> The highways will become parking lots. The movie must have had over a dozen shots of total gridlock.
> People one may be tempted to trust turn out to be not only non-trust-able, but overtly dangerous.
> If you do not have a solid bug-out plan, then get ready to suffer should you attempt such.
> Looting will begin earlier that the average Joe can imagine. We preppers realize this, however average folk, even if they've viewed such in the news, simply can't get their minds around the phenomenon.
> Do not count on the plans of government to be anywhere near sufficient to address widespread catastrophes.

The above are a lot of good points, so this movie, however flawed, is a very good movie for the public to watch. I don't think any rational person could say that the power grids of nations are not vulnerable. And hey, you can't reason with irrational people or people in denial -- if they die, they die. "Too bad, so sad." This movie does a better than decent job of trying to get to the people who are reasonably rational.

 

Traffic jams and no electrical power at hospitals and stores is what some think is as bad as it will get . Folks that is just the beginning . If that is all people are prepared to face , they ain,t going to make it .

 

So true.

The traffic jam is the Work Relief Act for the chop shops. Car's don't get refueled when there are no fuel sources.

There is a move to have more selected hospitals with UPS - Uninterrupted Power Supply. This plan is to also have the second tier health care facilities with UPS.

Same "move" for selected gasoline stations for the recovery phase.

Same for pre-established emergency shelters.

These "moves" would not even qualify for a dance at an acid-head hurricane party.

Can't elaborate.

 

Does anyone on here know how much fuel or how long would it last , on hand fuel for back up generators for water pump stations and for hospitals ? Lets don't base this assessment on fuel that would have to be trucked in after SHTF .

 

https://ssgen.com/generator-sales-s...ial-power-saves-lives-at-a-community-hospital

Above link about a 65 bed hospital mentions "better part of a week".

Note that a telephone pole or tree arriving at generators at 100 MPH reduces need for fuel until after replacement of generators.

 

Industry takes power back-up seriously.

A local telephone company, plus an industry/engineering plant where I worked had freight-train engines as backups (actual freight train engines, not just "big engines"). Our site had a 50' tall 30' diameter tank (or larger, it was huge) of fuel oil on the ready. Major hospitals have monster power back-up systems.

Such back-up generators are housed inside large buildings. Where I've worked, they have often been placed at lower levels surrounded by concrete. I've never worked in coastal areas; their generators have to survive horrific storms and flooding.

The nuclear site in Japan that was placed right on the coast numbs the mind. "The Japanese are so smart!" Not. That culture has a marked tendency to gamble. They lose. WWII was a bit of a mistake for the Japanese ... just sayin'. California has made similar mistakes ... but that's the loony left coast for ya.

Here's a Virginia law mandating power back-up:
https://augustafreepress.com/new-la...-requirements-for-assisted-living-facilities/

https://www.cummins.com/generators/high-hp-commercial-industrial

http://www.hipowersystems.com/Backup-Power-Generation/2/standby-power-solutions/24#

 

Old Geezer I just read the links you provided . That may be the answer . They may be linked to an underground natural gas pipeline .

 

Several years ago a tropical storm rolled into Houston and just DUMPS on it. The winds weren't all that bad but the rain was unprecedented and unimagined at that time. It was sort of like Harvey year before last and dumped FEET of water instead of inches. One of the biggest hospitals in Houston that specialized in children's needs had to be evacuated. It lost power and then realized that putting the generator in the basement wasn't a good idea. In my opinion, even having a basement in Houston is stupidity. The highest place in it isn't 10 feet above sea level and a lot of it is only 2 feet above it.

this is what happens when you stupidly hire people from other places to build your buildings. They have no experience with the specific issues that an area might have to deal with and all too often make insanely stupid mistakes. Going "Low Bid" will also get you a mess.

 

As I said in my post, big industry and big hospitals have huge fuel-oil tanks. Hospitals are at the top of the refuel priority list for state agencies and the military. Anything blocking necessary refueling efforts will be destroyed by the military. Remember that bulldozer blades can be attached to tanks and armored personnel carriers. If buildings fall down, they will be destroyed with explosives. This is what the Army Corps of Engineers do in war zones.

 

Baltimore is having a bit of trouble.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019...ory-hackers-use-nsa-code-grind-baltimore-halt

Those silly viruses.

 

Most emergency back ups are diesel powered and range in the 1kW and larger range. My employer is setting up a new plant in Puerto Rico that is still having to run off generator power that will eventually be the backup when the grid tie is complete. THe facility is running off (2) 1kW generators with 250K gallons of diesel storage. I've heard the estimate is that would run them 2.5 to 3 weeks; powering the facility and all of the molding equipment 24/7. If that's correct to go the 3 weeks those units are burning almost 500gal per hour. So fuel efficient, they are not... I believe the cost for the first time fill of the tanks was around $650K. So most hospitals, forget it, they're going to have enough fuel for maybe a couple days at best, more likely my guess is 24-48 hrs.

 

I don't know the answer to your question, but I do know that when fuel is in short supply in America, Federal and local authorities will take what they need from citizens.

During the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, police commandeered fuel from local citizen's privately owned vehicles. (Likewise, the Feds commandeered privately owned boats, Jet Skis, and whatever else they needed at the time.)

.

 

I appreciate all the feed back from my question . It would be logical to assume a large hospital or city water pump station would need more power for their generators than a small counterpart . Thus city hospitals would go dark and water quite flowing in a city quicker than a small rural community . Also something to be aware of , Fuel pipelines would be an legitimate military target if the crises was created by an foreign advisory .

 

No, it would NOT be logical to assume that. The military is going to come in to keep the "core-critical assets" afloat. Get in their way and see what happens.

"Adversary"

If pipelines get cut, automation equipment detects it. Failures kick-in the move to alternate plans.

For instance, Russia has enormous military engineering groups who dig huge divots in the earth. Monster bladders are placed therein and filled will fuel oil for their mobile armor.

Our military has its "solutions" also. Like I said, get in the way at your peril.

 

I don't care about the lemmings. Let all of the sheeple and nut-cases die.

There is good information out there and some movies possess a bit of logic. It's rare, so if I see it, this fascinates me. I want small communities to do as best they can. Those communities will provide a spring-board to civilizations future.

There is no purpose in surviving if there is no civilization, no ongoing evolution of our species. Without other souls, one's own spirit is diminished. If one shuns humanity then live 'till you die. Hurrah and hurrah. What a wondrous, though dead, existence. Being alive in a casket. No love = death.