Painful Lessons Lead To Enhanced Prepping For Survival.

Discussion in 'Other Advanced Survival Skills' started by Sourdough, Aug 14, 2019.

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  1. Sourdough

    Sourdough "ALASKAN"
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    Painful Lessons lead to Enhanced Prepping for Survival. I have spent the summer researching what would work best for me, in the early stages of E&E (escape & evade).

    This was the trigger from the spring of 2019 https://mysurvivalforum.com/threads/safety-dont-hit-the-wall-at-least-not-fatally.6320/#post-54181

    Some Background information: https://mysurvivalforum.com/threads/caching-experience-for-firearms-and-ammo.6104/

    I have decided to alter my closest caches to include 400 CLIF BARS. There is years of food cached in the wilderness, but I want pleasant tasting ready to eat, high energy food in the early stages, or what I think of as step number one in the switch from easy safe living, to a intense survival existence.

    I tested (both frozen and thawed) many different flavor CLIF BARS, and while for me they were all good, one flavor was clearly my favorite. The one I selected has 260 calories, and a good amount of fiber. There is many gallons of honey cached, but if on the run at 26 degrees below zero, honey is a sweet rock, with no fiber.
     
  2. Sourdough

    Sourdough "ALASKAN"
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    The key that I want to communicate is that this is for me, and what appeals to my taste and anticipated needs.
     
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  3. Morgan101

    Morgan101 Master Survivalist
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    I keep both Cliff bars and Honey in my long term storage supplies. Granted, I have nowhere near 400, but I definitely see the value in both, and I have substantial quantities of both.

    You make an interesting point about the honey freezing. I know it won't hurt the honey. A little heat and water will bring it back. I wonder what will happen to the container it is packaged in? Will the frozen honey damage the container, so that if it thawed it would leak? I think I see an experiment coming in the very near future.
     
  4. GrizzlyetteAdams

    GrizzlyetteAdams Crap Creek Survivor
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    CLIFF bars and honey are good choices! I would love to know what bear-proof containers you will use to cache these irresistible goodies.

    .
     
  5. Sourdough

    Sourdough "ALASKAN"
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    My concern is getting it out of the bottle when frozen, while running for days with a pack. My day to day honey I keep in a stainless steel "Vacuum Bottle" which is like a bowl, and is designed for putting hot soup in for lunch. I keep it in the refrigerator.

    As to the integrity of plastic honey containers........I have honey cached that has been cached for over twenty years, in the wilderness. It has experienced freezing and thawing several thousands of times. I have not had a plastic bottle crack. I do put the store bought honey into double plastic bags. As much to salvage the honey, but even more critical keeping from bring all over everything. And the chance of bears smelling a ruptured honey bottle.
     
  6. Sourdough

    Sourdough "ALASKAN"
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    I have never had a bear breach a 55 gallon steel drum, with removable lid and locking ring. However I am 100% aware that the big bears could, but in many decades it has not happened to mine. I also use 120mm ammo cans.

    A large Alaska Coastal Brown Bear uses his body weigh (up to 1,500 pounds) to crush steel drums, and there are many videos of them doing it. But those are bait barrels used for bear baiting, and when they get empty of bait, the bears get pissed. It is truly terrifying to watch, and to see how tiny those steel 55 gallon drums are next to a 12 or 13 foot, 3/4 ton of brown bear. The barrels don't even come upto his belly button.

    I would point out that everything in my cache barrels is each "individually" super redundantly wrapped to ensure no smell can escape. The guys bear baiting hang hundreds of dollars of special attractants to entice the bears to come to their bait barrel.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2019
  7. GrizzlyetteAdams

    GrizzlyetteAdams Crap Creek Survivor
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    Wow. For once I am (almost) speechless. It amazes me that YOU have not become not bear bait in these past five decades.

    .
     
  8. Sourdough

    Sourdough "ALASKAN"
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    I just made the final order for a total of 22 cases = 396 BARS.
     
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  9. Alaskajohn

    Alaskajohn Expert Member
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    Good to know honey in retail containers can survive the freeze/thaw cycles! With the abundance of bees in alaska, I’ve thought about raising them for honey, but I don’t need more bear magnets. They are all over the area now with the berries being ripe!

    Enjoy your cliff bars!
     
  10. Keith46er

    Keith46er Member
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    Clif bars are great but some kinds do not stand up to heat well. They melt and get extremely hard upon cooling. Check your supply and you’ll know quickly.
     
  11. Sourdough

    Sourdough "ALASKAN"
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    They go 24 bars into a zip-lock bag then into the deep freezer. I like to keep the freezer packed full of stuff, even stuff that does not need freezing.
     
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  12. Sourdough

    Sourdough "ALASKAN"
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    I have decided to go to 600 CLIF Bars. That is ten bars a day for two months. And ten bars is 2,400 calories. NO.....it is not my intention to eat nothing but these bars for months. However they require no cooking, which if alone in the wilderness, sick or injured, in a post SHTF survival situation might be all that I could do, for a few months.

    Might go for three month supply for the winter of 2020-2021.
     
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  13. GateCrasher

    GateCrasher Expert Member
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    That'd be a great topic for discussion, what to have if sick or injured and alone. Sports drinks with electrolytes maybe, and vitamin / mineral supplements that help with wound healing. Niacin and one other the B vitamins(?) helps with wound healing IIRC.*

    *Cheated and googled: http://woundcaresociety.org/list-vitamins-promote-wound-healing
     
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  14. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Ref: "sick or injured...";

    Good afternoon Sourdough, Gate Crasher and all,

    Important, because it's a realistic matter that common enough.

    For example, if any hand injuries, can the ZipLock bags be opened ? Hefty brand has a "zipper pull" ... more volume for packing but the zipper section can be grasped with pliers if hand injuries. I use both and with the ZipLock bags pack a lightweight EMT scissors (built in redundancy) without sheath.

    For down here - Mid Atlantic maritime weather - an appropriate-sized rubber band pre-fitted to lid of vacuum bottle. It gives better grip. Rubber, of course, freezes easy enough when cold. Don't ask me to define "cold" !

    Try opening the USCG-approved drinking water pouches. Not easy and it takes 2 hands.
     
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  15. Whisper

    Whisper Member
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    Heat up a metal spoon and dip it out. Stainless container won't melt. Or try using an ice pick?
     
  16. GrizzlyetteAdams

    GrizzlyetteAdams Crap Creek Survivor
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    You mentioned you would be putting these in the deep freezer. Would you be putting any of them in caches in case you find yourself on the run? After all, there's only so many of the bars you can carry.

    If you planned on relying on the regular kind of Clif Bars for sustenance in the event of injury or sickness, beware of severe nutritional imbalance issues by constant carb and sugar overloads. Carbs and sugars are great for energy but suck at maintaining body functions.

    Clif makes a high protein bar that would help address protein needs: https://www.clifbar.com/shop/product_line/builder-s.

    Is this is the kind you ordered?

    .
     
  17. GrizzlyetteAdams

    GrizzlyetteAdams Crap Creek Survivor
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    Taking a look at the nutritional profile of the different varieties of Clif Bars, I noticed that the main source of protein is soy-based. Uh oh. If you ate a lot of these, you may end up with hormonal issues such as depression, loss of energy or feeling tired and decrease in muscle mass. (Not that this matters in a survival situation but if you consume too much soy, you would also likely develop man boobs...moobs! :eek:)

    I would strongly consider making and packing something like well-made pemmican to supplement those Clif bars.


    .
     
  18. Sourdough

    Sourdough "ALASKAN"
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    I have drastically reduced the number of caches this summer. The plan is that around mid November I'll move around 400 bars to two different 55 gallon drums.

    I currently have 612 bars in the freezer. And will order 396 more bars next week.

    I am experiencing huge mental anguish each time I disassemble a cache. It just feels like I am setting myself up for failure and suffering, if the SHTF.

    Ingredients........CLIF BAR - Energy Bar - White Chocolate Macadamia Flavor - (2.4 Ounce Protein Bar)
    Organic Brown Rice Syrup, Organic Rolled Oats, Soy Protein Isolate, Organic Cane Syrup, Organic Roasted Soybeans, Rice Flour, Macadamia Nuts, Organic Dried Cane Syrup, Organic Oat Fiber, Organic Soy Flour, Cocoa Butter, Organic High Oleic Sunflower Oil, Natural Flavors, Organic Cocoa Butter, Sea Salt, Soy Flour, Barley Malt Extract, Soy Lecithin, Mixed Tocopherols (Antioxidant). Vitamins & Minerals: Dicalcium Phosphate, Magnesium Oxide, Ascorbic Acid (Vit. C), DL-Alpha Tocopheryl Acetate (Vit. E), Beta Carotene (Vit. A), Niacinamide (Vit. B3), Ergocalciferol (Vit. D2), Thiamine Mononitrate (Vit. B1), Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vit. B6), Riboflavin (Vit. B2), Cyanocobalamin (Vit. B12).

    NOTICE: I am not suggesting or recommending this flavor bar. I simply tried many different flavors, and I truly loved many, this was simply the one that appealed to me. I did not consider the ingredients when making my selection. They cost me about .92 cents each delivered to the bottom of my mountain. Then I have to backpack them up to the cabin. The last shipment weighed 45 pounds.
     
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  19. Sourdough

    Sourdough "ALASKAN"
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  20. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning Sourdough,

    Ah ha ! That's it ! White chocolate.....did you forget the late 1960's Playboy Magazine interview with Malcolm X ? I don't recall the mention of white chocolate but there was a theme in the interview.

    White chocolate has less caffeine than the other chocolates.

    ......

    Ref "Huge mental anguish"; Forget the Panda bears and Koala bears looking for their share. It's called - "Todesangst" - and if explainable, best explained to me by Ernest Becker. He wrote a book in 1973 (Library of Congress Catalog Number 73-1860). Sigmund Freud was identified as having Todesangst and started much discussion about this.

    It's not the disassembly of the cache causing the anguish. I'm going through it also.
     
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  21. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning Whisper,

    Re: "ice pick";

    LOL ! I have a big ice pick in my big, non-evac sewing box. It's used for sewing operations involving thick nylon and thick cotton canvas for my prep stuff.

    Sidebar in case of visiting journalists or Congressional delegations to our base camp: Don't use me for any sewing, painting, gluing or sawing.

    As soon as I red "ice pick" here at MSF was guessing most don't carry one, less the version on a few of the Swiss Army knives. Knowing the forum folks here, there would surely be some with that new Israeli commando bayonet. Like a submarine's periscope mast loaded with many other instruments, this IDF bayonet has sensors to determine for example, if a fence is electrified, Don't know if you can heat this instrument knife but it might have a white flame to melt chain link fence.

    Beside the Swiss Army knife series, some multi-tools have ice pick features. I phased out all these tools because of arthritic conditions.
     
  22. Sourdough

    Sourdough "ALASKAN"
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    I have zero idea what any of this means. Does anyone have any idea what this might mean.....???


     
  23. Sourdough

    Sourdough "ALASKAN"
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    Another nonsensical post. Or maybe it is just me who does not understand. Or maybe I need the "White Rabbit" secret decoder ring.

     
  24. GrizzlyetteAdams

    GrizzlyetteAdams Crap Creek Survivor
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    I must have the secret decoder ring, then. I understood every bit of it. (After reading it twice, lol.)

    I inherited my mother's ice pick, the same one she inherited from her father. It was also one of the weapons she kept close by as she slept in her home in New Orleans...it was her backup for the backup weapons.

    It has so many other functional uses that it is truly an all-purpose tool.

    .
     
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  25. TMT Tactical

    TMT Tactical The Great Lizard !
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    Ice pick, straight and to the point (joke intended). I do wish Pragmatist would stop with the government speak and revert to plain english, us common folks could decipher.
     
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  26. Pragmatist

    Pragmatist Master Survivalist
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    Good morning TMT Tactical,

    Just reread my scribbling to see if I could correct.

    Had written "ice pick", "bayonet" and "ice pick features". Would semi-swear that these are plain language.

    Your overall point is, however, well taken. It's a big enough issue that it's US Government policy REQUIRES "plain speak" in the disaster/emergency community. Abbreviations and slang are not allowed. Words, terms and other non-universal talking not allowed. In practical terms, much is NOT standardized.

    Some examples, not in any order:

    The abbreviation "FBI" is acceptable because it's now with a universal meaning.
    The contraction "MARDET" is not acceptable for large group disaster responses because it's too limited (Marine Detachment).
    A "bridge" is also on USN (acceptable abbreviation for writings) vessels. In the oil industry, it's strange. We've got wheel houses !

    Meanwhile, don't feel lonely. My emails are loaded with terms unknown to me. The computer terms are not standardized. Nor are the medics' and the aviators' . "Helmet heat" = information overload. Had to ask pilot about this.
     
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  27. Sourdough

    Sourdough "ALASKAN"
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    Well.........I have managed to buy all the available of these bars in the 18 bars carton, currently at 828 of these "Clif Bars" in the freezer. I can get another 240 bars, at a slightly higher cost per bar, and that would put me at 1,068 "CLIF BARS". At a consumption rate of eight per day, that would cover over four months if sick or injured and could not cook or do much of anything.

    Eight bars a day would be 2,080 calories. I have eaten Mountain House Freeze Dried Meals, dry right out of the package with no water. I am more and more warming to the possible need for food consumption without cooking in a hiding survival situation. Or at least having that option available.
     
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